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by Slamdunc on 15 August 2013 - 12:08
Pseudo also has a higher street value than the real thing, LOL
LOL! Yes, it is expensive, needs to be refrigerated and I don't think the shelf life is all that long. Fortunately, we don't pay for the "real stuff." We do however purchase various forms of explosives and their compounds. That is not cheap either. It also helps to have some military friends that bring back the real real stuff from overseas to train their dogs and allow us to use it for our EDD as well. Nothing like the "real" thing when working in the real world.
LOL! Yes, it is expensive, needs to be refrigerated and I don't think the shelf life is all that long. Fortunately, we don't pay for the "real stuff." We do however purchase various forms of explosives and their compounds. That is not cheap either. It also helps to have some military friends that bring back the real real stuff from overseas to train their dogs and allow us to use it for our EDD as well. Nothing like the "real" thing when working in the real world.
by Hired Dog on 15 August 2013 - 13:08
I work with an EDD and I will tell you that the pseudo, depending on what you choose, can indeed be very expensive. Unfortunately, not that many people meet the ATF requirements for a magazine storage, so, we use what we have and when the chance comes up to use the real thing, we take it. I have yet to meet a dog that did not alert on the real thing, when properly trained, even with using the pseudo daily for training.
by Slamdunc on 15 August 2013 - 15:08
Hired Dog,
I agree about the use of pseudo for EDD's and have seen many dogs that were started and trained on it. They all certify on the real stuff before they go down range. For us it is not practical to use Pseudo for narcotics, we have access to the actual source odors for our training aids and it makes testifying in court a whole lot "cleaner" and easier. No need to muddy the water with what type of training aids we use and how they compare to the actual target odor. Us Dual purpose, Patrol / narcotics guys spend a whole lot more time in court testifying than our Patrol / Explosives guys do.
I agree about the use of pseudo for EDD's and have seen many dogs that were started and trained on it. They all certify on the real stuff before they go down range. For us it is not practical to use Pseudo for narcotics, we have access to the actual source odors for our training aids and it makes testifying in court a whole lot "cleaner" and easier. No need to muddy the water with what type of training aids we use and how they compare to the actual target odor. Us Dual purpose, Patrol / narcotics guys spend a whole lot more time in court testifying than our Patrol / Explosives guys do.
by Hired Dog on 15 August 2013 - 15:08
Slam, I believe you and have said so for a long time now. I would NEVER want to do drug detection now days and I applaud you for doing it.
The court system and the legalities of it all are not anything I would want to deal with.
The court system and the legalities of it all are not anything I would want to deal with.
by Slamdunc on 15 August 2013 - 16:08
HD,
Narcotics detection / interdiction is one of the most rewarding and fun parts of my job. I do spend a couple of days a week in court though.
Narcotics detection / interdiction is one of the most rewarding and fun parts of my job. I do spend a couple of days a week in court though.
by Hired Dog on 15 August 2013 - 16:08
Slam, I believe you. The part that my temperament could not handle is the court. I am a KISS type of person, something is there or its not and dont question my dog's detection abilities after I pull a kilo of whatever from your car. Like I said, its either there or its not, but, thats me.
Again, I could not do drug detection today with the way the system is set up, but, my hat off to you sir for doing it.
Again, I could not do drug detection today with the way the system is set up, but, my hat off to you sir for doing it.
by samael28 on 15 August 2013 - 16:08
whats you guys best seizures???
Ok since actual in depth training application is a bit of a sensitive subject for some I would like to ask just some overview application questions.
Say you have you have a detection dog. say drugs(pot,coke,meth,heroin) for all intensive purposes. but yet you want the dog to be able to conduct area searches for say firearms as well. do you attach different commands for this? or do you incorporate in as just another scent within the same command for the drugs? If you use the same command or different what is the max # of scents you think a good dog can memorize??
also do you guys use article identification if you are using your k9 to track/trail perpetrator for apprehension? Just curious if you would find it better for the dog to identify articles(ie...evidence- thrown packages,firearms etc.... ) in pursuit or would you return after apprehension and conduct area search?
Ok since actual in depth training application is a bit of a sensitive subject for some I would like to ask just some overview application questions.
Say you have you have a detection dog. say drugs(pot,coke,meth,heroin) for all intensive purposes. but yet you want the dog to be able to conduct area searches for say firearms as well. do you attach different commands for this? or do you incorporate in as just another scent within the same command for the drugs? If you use the same command or different what is the max # of scents you think a good dog can memorize??
also do you guys use article identification if you are using your k9 to track/trail perpetrator for apprehension? Just curious if you would find it better for the dog to identify articles(ie...evidence- thrown packages,firearms etc.... ) in pursuit or would you return after apprehension and conduct area search?
by Hired Dog on 15 August 2013 - 17:08
Samael...NEVER, EVER NEVER do you use one dog for both explosives and narcotics searches. It has been tried, it has screwed up royally and at least one person I know has been arrested for trying to pass such dogs to the Federal Govnt.
If you meant it like an article search, guy run, ditched a gun, then yes, its just an article search based on anything that was thrown by that person and it works because the dog will pick up anything bearing human odor on the area you are searching.
Yes, there are different commands for both of these activities, at least for me there are.
If you meant it like an article search, guy run, ditched a gun, then yes, its just an article search based on anything that was thrown by that person and it works because the dog will pick up anything bearing human odor on the area you are searching.
Yes, there are different commands for both of these activities, at least for me there are.
by samael28 on 15 August 2013 - 17:08
well those were 2 different scenarios. I know im not the best at clear communication on here lol.
the 1st was basically if you could have a narcotics dog that would search for firearms too. not laced with human scent just a firearm in a vehicle. say someone had illegal fire arms and ammo hidden in compartment. could or would you have the same dog searching for both illegal narcs and firearms. As im guessing you would have to have the dog trained on the ammunitions powder to segregate the firearms scent from everything else. So can you add that one scent to a narc dog? if so would you use same command or a different one.
and the 2nd was would you rather the dog indicate on thrown evidence/articles during track to apprehend a suspect or would you rather him focus on the track to apprehend as quickly as possible and the come back and conduct area search with your dog to find any evidence?
the 1st was basically if you could have a narcotics dog that would search for firearms too. not laced with human scent just a firearm in a vehicle. say someone had illegal fire arms and ammo hidden in compartment. could or would you have the same dog searching for both illegal narcs and firearms. As im guessing you would have to have the dog trained on the ammunitions powder to segregate the firearms scent from everything else. So can you add that one scent to a narc dog? if so would you use same command or a different one.
and the 2nd was would you rather the dog indicate on thrown evidence/articles during track to apprehend a suspect or would you rather him focus on the track to apprehend as quickly as possible and the come back and conduct area search with your dog to find any evidence?
by Hired Dog on 15 August 2013 - 17:08
There are school districts that have their own dogs that will search for drugs and some of those dogs will also alert on a gun because its a good idea to not have those on campus, but, they alert based on training for residue or actual ammo in the gun, thats it, no more. That dog is not a bomb dog and would not work as one.
As far as the second part, if the dog is trained to indicate on an article while tracking, thats what it will do. The handler can either pick it up, mark it and keep going, have his secondary pick it up, etc, many options exist. I hope I answered your questions and I understand that its hard for anyone to try to convey everything they want in here clearly all the time.
As far as the second part, if the dog is trained to indicate on an article while tracking, thats what it will do. The handler can either pick it up, mark it and keep going, have his secondary pick it up, etc, many options exist. I hope I answered your questions and I understand that its hard for anyone to try to convey everything they want in here clearly all the time.
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