GSD: Working line IPO titles vs. Show line IPO titles - Page 2

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by emoryg on 18 October 2018 - 15:10

Apple, just curious. If I am approached by a stranger and neither the dog or I feel threatened, and it's something other than a product of conditioning, what would you consider the reasons for the dog lighting up? And just to stimulate conversation, what test would you do to expose the dog's that I like to significant nerve issues? I appreciate your feedback.

by Juno on 18 October 2018 - 16:10

I personally would not want my dog to light up by a non threatening approaching stranger. My dog will take a hard look and I will have a pretty good idea as to how he will react. We have had bicyclists and joggers go by while we are out for a walk or even just strangers out for a walk and he will take a good look and then ignore them. However; there have been a few occasions where he has reacted much more aggressively. So, I trust my dog. Regardless if I tell him to relax he will back down but will continue to keep an eye on the person. I really like his discernment. Truth be said that in at least 50% of the time we get right of way when we go for a walk - people get intimidated by him easily - he can do that..

by apple on 18 October 2018 - 16:10

Have you ever been in a situation where a stranger is staring at you? Some people might get anxious and some might start thinking, "what the f..k is he looking at" and get angry. Dominance could be an issue. Some subtle body language that the dog doesn't like that you don't detect. It is like the old saying, "If your dog doesn't like somebody, neither should you." Younger dogs with genetic aggression might start to show their aggression until they reach maturity. Territorial aggression could be an issue if the dog claims you and his space as his territory. Re: testing for nerves, I don't know if you mean in regard to bite work or other issues. For example, will your dog walk across a large grate that has some depth under it? Will your dog bite on slick surfaces or a metal stairway, or in the dark, or under a tarp? What would your dog do if you started up a leaf blower and aimed it at him? Some dogs will spook around hot air balloons. Will your dog engage in bite work in water? Will he jump into a pickup truck and engage? Will your dog jump off an elevated area into water? There are endless ways to test a dog's nerves. IMO, that is a major shortcoming of IPO.

by Dab353 on 18 October 2018 - 17:10

emoryg, no disrespect but I did not confuse a Sieger Show with an actual IPO trial. I compete with my show line GSD in both of those things. So for you to say that I have confused the two is completely incorrect because I know exactly what they are. I just wanted to get a better understanding of why during IPO trials I never see any show line GSD working towards their IPO1/IPO2/IPO3, but always see working lines. It just feels like there is such a discrepancy between how each line is trialed.

by susie on 18 October 2018 - 17:10

Juno is right, as is Astrovan.

The rules always are the same, but some judges tend to "interpret" them.

Working/showline doesn't matter on local trials - it's about the judge first and foremost.
The judges wearing "pink sunglasses" are well known and invited very often😀,
whereas the ones sticking to the rules are not invited that often...😎

The classic IPO sport is loosing members for years now.
Because of that some judges don't want to discourage owners/handlers, tending to give them a "pass", as long as the handler/dog team is able to show some successful work 😥

Never forget, it's about LOCAL level trials only (and BH and IPO1 only).

The Siegershow is totally different.
The bitework is based on the breed survey.
Never forget: People join the Siegershow because they do own a pretty dog, not because they do own a good working dog.
A lot of dogs (no matter show or workingline) are able to pass a local trial, but at the Siegershow with all it's noise and distractions, including unknown property and decoys, everybody interested in "showlines able to work" is able to distinguish (and thanks to Irina online for free)...

A lot of people just don't care..

by emoryg on 18 October 2018 - 17:10

Dab353, I am so sorry. When you mentioned the dogs only doing protection and somewhat of obedience, I jumped to conclusions and thought you were seeing part of the Sieger performance test. It has been a long time since I caught dogs in a trial. At that time, there were dogs from both lines participating and all had to perform all three phases.

by Rik on 18 October 2018 - 17:10

well, I guess I didn't realize that SV or SV recognized events were limited to "type" of GSD.

I do know there are events in which one type is usually assumed or expected to do better.


by Dab353 on 18 October 2018 - 17:10

In Canada, whether local IPO trials or large championships, I have never seen a showline GSD compete, ever!

by Rik on 18 October 2018 - 17:10

no, but you have also never seen them forbidden to compete. there is a difference.

I have seen them at the local level in USA.



by susie on 18 October 2018 - 18:10

I see both kinds of them all the times...
The rules are the same...

I guess the clubs in your area are "working", not "showline clubs" - so you will see working, not showline dogs.

But maybe the "showline" people in your area don't care about IPO - where there are no rules, there is no participation, but quick and easy money.

At least the showlines you saw at the Siegershow had to trial...
(V rating at least local IPO1, VA rating at least IPO2)...

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