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Pedigree Database

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by xPyrotechnic on 03 September 2021 - 21:09

Ive seen a lot of DDR's are heavily linebred on Ex vom Riedstern who was a great dog but it comes to a point in nearly every DDR, old slovak and Pohranicni straze pedigrees that ive looked at he at least comes up once. Take a look at Nola the best DDR female that ive found that fits what i like:

She is linebred on 6 dogs who are linebred on Ex some heavily others like Ingo only 3-2 and the others have Ex as their sire, is it wise to continue linebreeding on Ex even though at this point he is many generations away

Another DDR dog that i like:

He is linebred on 7 dogs who are heavily linebred on Ex. If a breeding between these 2 was to happen would it cause complications down the line?

by duke1965 on 04 September 2021 - 00:09

I think the low availability of various pure DDR dogs makes it unavoidable to do so,

by GSCat on 04 September 2021 - 07:09

What is Other health issues: ZW=69 on the Bitch?

Most of the hips throughout the pedigree known, so information available to make decision from HD standpoint.  Diclosure:  I was lazy and only went back 7 generations for the purpose of this discussion.  If I were going to breed any two dogs, I'd go back farther.  At least 17 if at all possible.


Did the Mating Outcome to look at the Inbreeding Coefficients


I know nothing about DDR lines, but in general:

Do the Bitch and Stud, and the dogs in the lines behind them exhibit and throw the characteristics you're breeding for?  Are these characteristics strengthening or weaking as the progeny get farther away from Ex? Are any bad characteristics getting worse or better the farther away from Ex?  Do the Bitch and Stud complement each other temperament and structure-wise?  Are there any shortfalls/issues doubled up on?  Anything specific or special in these two dogs you want to double up on, and why?  Do the doubling ups support goal(s) for the breeding or program?  Anything you're trying to breed out?  Does the breeding have the potential to further this?  Are you planning on bringing in something specific from somewhere else to breed with a puppy with something specific you're trying for in his litter for some other/longer term goal of your program?  Will any doubling ups in this litter make it more difficult to bring in this other characteristic(s) in future litter(s)?  Is this somewhere else also linebred on Ex?  Is pure DDR must-have?


Etc. Etc.  Etc. 


Let the rock throwing commence  🤣



by Rik on 04 September 2021 - 09:09

lol cat. if you did all that on a lazy day, I don't want to be in your way when you are feeling energetic.

by xPyrotechnic on 04 September 2021 - 20:09

Thanks for the insight i will be looking into these questions if i was to start breeding, im curious as to why you said that you would look into 17 generations surely 7 is far back enough?

by GSCat on 05 September 2021 - 03:09

I don't like ugly surprises. Too many people ask, "Where did that come from?"

Yup, time consuming.

7 generations back mathematically
128 dogs in the 7th generation, each of which contributes 0.78 of one percent of the genetic material. Since genes are in pairs, that means the chance of any one gene being transmitted is 0.39 of one percent.

17 generations back doesn't really change math since fractions of percentages under one percent get wonky.

But if you can figure out where something came from by going back far enough, you can double-up or more to breed for something. Or avoid breeding dogs with a particular ancestor that's likely or known to be transmitting something undesirable. And you can calculate likely possibility of the gene being transmitted when doubling up in the pedigree.

When looking at trends, going back 17 generations on one line of ancestors, there's only 17 dogs of the same gender starting with one parent, so only 34 dogs to look at when considering the dogs of 17 generations that follow the strictly male and female lines. Not that these are the only important dogs in the pedigree, but in the interest of time, the first ones to look at after the 7 whole generations. 7 generations could represent dogs of only one or two breeders, or overwhelmingly so, so good and bad could be masked or brought out by environment, including common trainer/facility, instead of genetics.

I like looking at long-term trends in temperament, physical structure, ability, and uses in a line. That also means looking at the siblings in the litters of the dogs in the pedigree to look for consistency in the litter. Some of the uses and titles reflect the connections the breeder has, and the same breeder may have breed several generations in the pedigree, so long-term looking that looks at dogs that would likely come from several breeders is necessary to assess whether a dog in the pedigree is a representative or outlier dog, and if uses are due to the dog's characteristics/temperament/innate ability vs.the breeder's contacts and/or training. Looking at half siblings can also give some clues about what genes are being washed out and which are being transmitted and where good and bad things are coming from.

Sorry this is kind of jumbled and convoluted. Tired and this may be the only chance I might get to respond for a few days.


by txarkoeta on 05 September 2021 - 07:09

Creo que la baja disponibilidad de varios perros DDR puros hace que sea inevitable hacerlo,

Duke, why do you say low availability to buy pure DDR? Lugwigseck, Kranich Hof, Knurris, Grafental, Weltwich ....... continue to breed DDR

by xPyrotechnic on 05 September 2021 - 08:09

Txarkoeta he means genetic diversity too much tino, sven, sando etc…


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