by eramos33 on 26 July 2021 - 19:07
So a couple months ago i posted here stating that i was planning to purchase a pregnant female GSD who is proven and is titled (IPO1) from Hungary. I wanted to add a healthy(HIPS AND ELBOWS)/titled female to my kennel. Well, i can truly say that it has been a learning experience.... I have imported before but this would definitely be my last time. The deal was that i would purchase a titled female and she would be bred with another titled GSD (both have "passed" Korung surveys). Took over 5 months to get her after i put my deposit (for some reason she was not in heat when she was suppose to, understandable). In between i would receive pictures and videos of the female. The female looked decent (SV Standard). The pictures and videos where some what okay quality not the best but not the worst. He sent me pictures of her bite work and pictures when she was bred. I later got an ultra sound confirming that she was pregnant with 2-5 puppies signed by a Hungarian Vet (even googled the vet online). In the meantime i had friend requested the breeder from Hungary which he had accepted. So i was able to see pictures of the dog since she was a puppy. I asked When i payed (PAYPAL) the rest of the money to have her shipped and asked a few questions he all of a sudden blocked me. Which should be alarming but didnt ask why because the initial person i was dealing was the broker not the breeder. When she was shipped to me i had to Drive 6 hours to get her and deal with customs which was not as bad as i thought it would be. Any way, when i picked her up she was a lot slimmer looking then i thought given the fact that she was pregnant. Also she has a small piece of her ear missing which is not alarming but it would have been nice if the broker or breeder would have stated so. Thankfully she is a well mannered dog. Moving forward, the female ended up having only one puppy.. My wife and i where in disbelieved.. only ONE! we took her to the vet to confirm. That's not the worst part. She was a good mother for like the first week until we notice that one day the puppy went missing. You would think how right? specially since she was supervised almost 24/7. We where going crazy looking for him for about 2 hours untill we seen specs of fresh blood on the whelping box which meant that she had eaten a perfect healthy puppy. Horrible.. makes me now realize why they sold her to me. I understood the risk of buying a pregnant dog and the what if's but never would have imagined this scenario. The broker who i wont identify, has been very complaint. He stated that he is truly sorry and that he is willing to give out another free breed with his male. But to be truly honest i really don't want a female that eats her own puppies. What are my options? Also i still have not received her papers as well and its been about a month and half (I understand this takes time). Leaning towards getting my money back. Money is secured through PayPal.
by Nans gsd on 27 July 2021 - 14:07
by Riohaus on 27 July 2021 - 16:07
by eramos33 on 27 July 2021 - 16:07
she has. I believe she had "7". He showed me pictures of their paperwork and pictures of them. I am leaning towards my money back but dont know the process of shipping the female back. They keep trying to persuade to keep her...
Exactly. I know things like this happen but never wouldve guessed it would happen to me.
by GSCat on 28 July 2021 - 01:07
Has the bitch ever harmed or killed and eaten a puppy before?
Since the bitch had been bred successfully before, perhaps the travel and new home caused her a lot of stress and upset. Maybe the stress of having/caring for the puppy was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak? Maybe the puppy wasn't completely OK and there was no way you could have known and he/she died naturally or the bitch culled him/her. Or the bitch accidentally killed/hurt the puppy by rolling on him/her (even in sleep) or? and then ate the puppy because he/she was hurt or dead. FWIW, I wouldn't trust a bitch alone with a litter, no matter how large or small, for any amount of time, for at least a week to 10 days, depending, and maybe longer, especially one I didn't know for a long time. I remember *someone* calling off work sick for just this purpose. Don't remember for how long, though.
If she's had 7 litters, how old is she? Assuming not bred until 2 years old and then only one litter a year, she's about 8 years old, which is on the old side to be having puppies. How many litters from this bitch have been registered? Some registries limit the number of lifetime registerable litters per bitch and/or 12-month time period registerable litters per bitch. Since the only puppy born in the one litter died shortly after birth, does this litter count against any lifetime or annual limitations? Was this litter registerable and was it registered? Since she was thinner than you thought she should be when she arrived, is it possible she had a partial miscarriage enroute (and maybe ate those puppies)? Were there any SNAFUS during shipping that could have caused dehydration or?
From a financial perspective does a repeat breeding make sense? Even if the breeder provides a freebie from the stud, how much will you have to pay for transportation? Would the breeder be willing to send semen instead of you transporting the bitch? Would you be able to use the semen with a different bitch or only the one you bought?
If you really want to try again with this bitch, if you can't get semen from the breeder, would it make more sense to find a suitable stud that you could take her to and bring her back from (in your vehicle as a nice ride(s) for both of you) to reduce costs to you and stress to her?
Will the breeder/broker give you your money back instead of you taking it back via PayPal? I know that sounds like no difference, but goodwill is important. There are reputations at stake here, not just in the dog world, but also in the PayPal world. If I decided to get my money back, I think I'd give the breeder/broker an opportunity to refund gracefully before I did the PayPal refund, unless the breeder/broker said to do the PayPal refund. Don't wait too long to make a decision, if for no other reason, the dog's mental/emotional well-being. The broker or breeder should be able to tell you how to return the dog, and if they can't or won't, contact Customs for assistance.
Would it make more sense to spay the bitch and either keep her or find her a good home (free or sell) so she could never hurt or kill another puppy and not pass this trait on? Or, keep her intact for health or if she has to be intact for sports, and make sure she doesn't get bred again, and enjoy her in sports, as a pet, as a therapy dog, search and rescue, etc.? Especially since she's well mannered and trained/titled.
Just a "few" things to consider.
by SummertimeGSD on 28 July 2021 - 01:07
by eramos33 on 28 July 2021 - 13:07
Thanks for the well thought out post. I was also thinking that stress might have played a huge roll on the outcome. I meant to say that she had 7 puppies before not 7 litters. The broker provided paperwork on 3. Good looking dogs that as well.
Financially i lost about 7k in total. 3k euro for the dog and the rest on shipment and breeding. So his top male is now in TX so i am assuming he can ship out semen. Would never again travel with a dog while being pregnant.
Will the breeder give me back my money back instead of PAYPAL? im not to sure. I hinted that i might want to get refunded but regardless i would still loose alot of money. mainly loosing on Shipment money.
Thanks for the reply, i appreciate it.
Good morning! thanks for sharing your story. It sounds to me that it can still be a gamble regardless and that i would have to watch her 24/7 for the next breed. But since she had only one singleton it kind of worried me. Also, waiting will jeopardize that time my money is protected. I think Paypal only secures for 6 months.
by GSCat on 29 July 2021 - 12:07
Excuse for a fun/relaxing ride with your dog :-) And some bonding since you haven't had her that long :-) The two dogs know each other, so another plus :-)
Yes, I have traveled cross-country with dog(s) and cat(s) in a car. Once everyone settles in, it's very enjoyable. With only dog(s), there's more opportunity to stop and smell the roses because not leaving cat(s) in the vehicle :-)
Take lots of towels, paper towels, plastic bags, and nontoxic clean-up stuff because if you don't, you'll need it for sure.
And food and water for the dog.
by furryflurry on 01 August 2021 - 13:08
One had Hips/Elbows done one month before breeding as FCI A/0 . Confirmed pregnant with ultrasound and her name on the machine. They also had sent us her hip/elbow xrays. When she got here she was not pregnant and when we rechecked hips/elbows, she had ununited anconeal process on one elbow(not passing), and the other didn't look like it would pass. This is not an injury that could have happened in the last few months. So, a vet had signed off on the wrong dog
Then, we tried an Italian female. When she arrived, we knew that she had 11 puppies, but we noticed a hernia. Not umbilical, but abdominal that could be reduced. We were planning a section, but she went into labor early (day 58 from progesterone), and only 4 of the 11 puppies were alive. When we went to spay and fix the hernia, it turned out that there were 3 hernias connected that would make carrying a litter to full term nearly impossible.
So, I always feel that it is too good to be true. I ask myself : why are they letting go a perfectly health female from their breeding program? Many times it is because she is not a healthy dog of breeding quality.
by Koots on 01 August 2021 - 15:08
I don't think that I would ever import a pregnant female, as there have been too many bad endings for buyer and most importantly, the dog. There are enough good studs here (in N. America) that importing a pregnant female seems to be just a money-saving thing to me.
GSCat - the borders are not opened up to non-essential travel yet. The border will be open for Americans to travel to Canada soon, but there was no reciprocal agreement for Canadians to travel south unfortunately. Not sure why, as Canadian vaccination rates exceed those of our southern neighbours.