This is a placeholder text
Group text
by gouda on 23 April 2013 - 09:04
THERE ARE 2 CONDITIONSD FOR ANSWERED PRAYER FAITH IN GOD,
AND FORGIVENESS OF OTHERS.
God seeks to make us like Himself,ready to forgive when we have been wronged.
Aperson who truly believes prays for what is in the will of God.
Actually Shtal I believe you and I are talking about two different subjects.
You got to remember that RED SABLE ASKED, WHY DO i HAVE TO CONFESS MY SINS TO MY PASTOR.
Verse 5 has nothing to do with Red Sable ,nor does it answer her question. Read what it states in verse 1.
YOUR BROTHER IN CHRIST
gouda
AND FORGIVENESS OF OTHERS.
God seeks to make us like Himself,ready to forgive when we have been wronged.
Aperson who truly believes prays for what is in the will of God.
Actually Shtal I believe you and I are talking about two different subjects.
You got to remember that RED SABLE ASKED, WHY DO i HAVE TO CONFESS MY SINS TO MY PASTOR.
Verse 5 has nothing to do with Red Sable ,nor does it answer her question. Read what it states in verse 1.
YOUR BROTHER IN CHRIST
gouda
by Carlin on 23 April 2013 - 09:04
Shtal - There is no biblical basis for the necessity to confess one's sin in the presence of one in a particular office, period. "There shall be then no mediator...". If the Bible is your anchor, you should become a bit better acquainted with what it says, as opposed to being subject to the many contrived institutional machinations prevelant in "christianity" from its inception.
by BabyEagle4U on 23 April 2013 - 11:04
Great post Carlin !! Now tell that to ALL the Catholics !! Where's UglyDog ? I told him this before but he didn't believe me. lol
Jesus is Lord.
Jesus is Lord.
by BabyEagle4U on 23 April 2013 - 11:04
On second thought, maybe BeeTree was on to something with her "preach from the pulpit" purgatory party. Because if ALL Catholics go to purgatory for a while - there's only one place for them to go afterwards .. 
Do Catholics know about this ? LOL
Do Catholics know about this ? LOL
by BabyEagle4U on 23 April 2013 - 11:04
God works in mysterious ways, dontcha know !!
by Shtal on 23 April 2013 - 12:04
Hundmutter wrote: includes all babies, since they are too young to lust after anybody?
You should read how GSDguy08 answered that question here
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=707778-david-wilkerson-vs-joel-osteen&pagen=11
here is his post:
GSDguy,,Let us get one thing straight, I did not just simply state you were wrong ,I am familiar with the background of the Psalm and have come to my conclusion based on the context of the chapter and the rest of scripture..,lol,,stop playing games huh,,The verse is NOT teaching he was born because of sin, The scripture is clearly teaching he was born in sin..We will have to agree to disagree...
As far as the Ezekiel passages the scripture is simply teaching that each person is accountable to their own sin,,That does not in anyway nullify the clear teaching of original sin..It only builds on the idea that every human has a personal responsibility toward God for their actions not based on the actions of their natural parents or anyone else for that matter..That is why we will all give an account to God individually .
You did not answer my question about knowing any one who is sinless?..Since you believe that we are born sinless do you know of anyone who has attained this sinles**s status indefinitely??..
Also, It is of no consequence whether scripture makes sense to you or not,,Scripture does not need to meet your standard of rationale..As a matter of fact, lol, scripture rarely makes sense intellectually speaking..The fact remains, Christ was without sin and was incapable of sinning based on His nature ..Christ is God,,You need to build your theology on the basic principles of Bible doctrine..
As far as your comment about many Calvinists holding to the view that Christ was sinless due to Mary herself being conceived in a miraculous way, ..Please provide me with the names of these teachers ..I have never personally met or heard of a traditional Calvinist who did...
Maybe you could get together with Gouda and you could work on providing these names
together,,:)
First things first, what does it matter "who this teacher is"? You seem to only give one credibility if they are a well known teacher, or as others do....If they have gone to some "school of divinity" or "theology". I don't care what others consider "credible" to be a teacher, preacher, etc as far as those things go, so long as they are teaching the truth.
Your explanation of the Ezekiel passage doesn't really disprove anything. But at the same time it partially proves exactly what I've said before, and what I hold to be true, according to the Scriptures.....That we are only held accountable for what we do, and not what others do. But if....as you claim....that children inherit sin; Would a child born, "inheriting sin", who dies as a baby......be lost?
And yes, I believe we are born sinless, I've yet to see any of the passages you've quoted that prove otherwise. As for your question though, you know the answer to that. Now if you want to pervert and twist Romans 3:23 to justify your belief, then think about this. It says "all have sinned". That is completely different than saying "someone was born inheriting sin". Can a baby sin? Does a baby know right from wrong? If one wants to twist Romans 3:23 to say a baby can sin, after all, it does say "all"....Jesus came in the flesh, so........ Neither Christ, nor a little baby sins.
I've been thinking about things, and relooking at other passages that were mentioned before. Just as other preachers I've talked to, held to the thoughts about Matthew 18:3 as not just dealing with humility. Sure it mentions that within verse 4, but noticed "are converted" in verse 3. "Are converted" is defined as an active and voluntary turning from sin". Something else, even in 1 Corinthians 14:20 why does it state "Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature."
Your thoughts on inheriting sin remind me of John 9. God does not demand of us or hold us accountable for what we cannot help. Jesus, for example, said, "If you were blind, you would have no sin" (John 9:41). Jesus is talking about being unable to comprehend right and wrong. Infants have no sin because we know they can't comprehend right and wrong. God does not hold them accountable.
And dealing with the Psalm passage again. I talked to another preacher, one who has been preaching a lot longer than I have. This is what he had said. "Understanding what David really means in his phrase can open up a valuable lesson for us. While the wording seems to suggest that he was born in iniquity, and that he was born depraved and sinful, in context with the rest of the Bible, the doctrine seems impossible. We know from Matthew 18:3 that Christ wants us to strive to be like children in our clean consciences. We also know from Ezekiel 18 that children do not inherit the sins of their parents, under any circumstances. Naturally, then, we can assume that children are not born depraved in soul. There are many commentators and preachers who argue that what David is saying is this, “Behold, I was brought forth into a world of iniquity and depravity, and a sinful mother conceived me.” What he means is that the world is full of sin, and even his own mother was sinful. Even Mary, the mother of Jesus was sinful! Every man or woman who ever lived has committed sin, according to Romans 5:12, but that does not mean a baby is born in sin. If babies are sinful, then why would Christ command us to be like them? There is also the idea that David is using hyperbole to give the reader a sense of how sinful he perceives himself to be. He is exaggerating in order to prove his point that he is a sinner who does not deserve to be forgiven. I find it interesting that folks will try to draw literal conclusions and build doctrines on extravagant language in a poem!"
And even more to your idea that Jesus wasn't capable of sinning "because He is God" as you stated. Temptation without the possibility of acting on it is not temptation at all. There's an old story about a pig who walked past the candy store every day. He bought candy every single time, until one day he realized he needed to lose weight. Well, he only managed to go two days on his diet before he couldn't help himself anymore. He hurriedly ran down the street to the candy store, only to discover that it was closed for remodeling. He congratulated himself, saying, "I've done a good job today! I did not eat a single piece of candy!" The moral of the story is that it is very easy to claim you are not tempted by something when you lack the ability to act upon temptation. In Hebrews 2:17 it says Jesus had to become like his brethren in all things, and Hebrews 4:15 clearly says he was tempted in all things.
You should read how GSDguy08 answered that question here
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=707778-david-wilkerson-vs-joel-osteen&pagen=11
here is his post:
GSDguy,,Let us get one thing straight, I did not just simply state you were wrong ,I am familiar with the background of the Psalm and have come to my conclusion based on the context of the chapter and the rest of scripture..,lol,,stop playing games huh,,The verse is NOT teaching he was born because of sin, The scripture is clearly teaching he was born in sin..We will have to agree to disagree...
As far as the Ezekiel passages the scripture is simply teaching that each person is accountable to their own sin,,That does not in anyway nullify the clear teaching of original sin..It only builds on the idea that every human has a personal responsibility toward God for their actions not based on the actions of their natural parents or anyone else for that matter..That is why we will all give an account to God individually .
You did not answer my question about knowing any one who is sinless?..Since you believe that we are born sinless do you know of anyone who has attained this sinles**s status indefinitely??..
Also, It is of no consequence whether scripture makes sense to you or not,,Scripture does not need to meet your standard of rationale..As a matter of fact, lol, scripture rarely makes sense intellectually speaking..The fact remains, Christ was without sin and was incapable of sinning based on His nature ..Christ is God,,You need to build your theology on the basic principles of Bible doctrine..
As far as your comment about many Calvinists holding to the view that Christ was sinless due to Mary herself being conceived in a miraculous way, ..Please provide me with the names of these teachers ..I have never personally met or heard of a traditional Calvinist who did...
Maybe you could get together with Gouda and you could work on providing these names
together,,:)
First things first, what does it matter "who this teacher is"? You seem to only give one credibility if they are a well known teacher, or as others do....If they have gone to some "school of divinity" or "theology". I don't care what others consider "credible" to be a teacher, preacher, etc as far as those things go, so long as they are teaching the truth.
Your explanation of the Ezekiel passage doesn't really disprove anything. But at the same time it partially proves exactly what I've said before, and what I hold to be true, according to the Scriptures.....That we are only held accountable for what we do, and not what others do. But if....as you claim....that children inherit sin; Would a child born, "inheriting sin", who dies as a baby......be lost?
And yes, I believe we are born sinless, I've yet to see any of the passages you've quoted that prove otherwise. As for your question though, you know the answer to that. Now if you want to pervert and twist Romans 3:23 to justify your belief, then think about this. It says "all have sinned". That is completely different than saying "someone was born inheriting sin". Can a baby sin? Does a baby know right from wrong? If one wants to twist Romans 3:23 to say a baby can sin, after all, it does say "all"....Jesus came in the flesh, so........ Neither Christ, nor a little baby sins.
I've been thinking about things, and relooking at other passages that were mentioned before. Just as other preachers I've talked to, held to the thoughts about Matthew 18:3 as not just dealing with humility. Sure it mentions that within verse 4, but noticed "are converted" in verse 3. "Are converted" is defined as an active and voluntary turning from sin". Something else, even in 1 Corinthians 14:20 why does it state "Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature."
Your thoughts on inheriting sin remind me of John 9. God does not demand of us or hold us accountable for what we cannot help. Jesus, for example, said, "If you were blind, you would have no sin" (John 9:41). Jesus is talking about being unable to comprehend right and wrong. Infants have no sin because we know they can't comprehend right and wrong. God does not hold them accountable.
And dealing with the Psalm passage again. I talked to another preacher, one who has been preaching a lot longer than I have. This is what he had said. "Understanding what David really means in his phrase can open up a valuable lesson for us. While the wording seems to suggest that he was born in iniquity, and that he was born depraved and sinful, in context with the rest of the Bible, the doctrine seems impossible. We know from Matthew 18:3 that Christ wants us to strive to be like children in our clean consciences. We also know from Ezekiel 18 that children do not inherit the sins of their parents, under any circumstances. Naturally, then, we can assume that children are not born depraved in soul. There are many commentators and preachers who argue that what David is saying is this, “Behold, I was brought forth into a world of iniquity and depravity, and a sinful mother conceived me.” What he means is that the world is full of sin, and even his own mother was sinful. Even Mary, the mother of Jesus was sinful! Every man or woman who ever lived has committed sin, according to Romans 5:12, but that does not mean a baby is born in sin. If babies are sinful, then why would Christ command us to be like them? There is also the idea that David is using hyperbole to give the reader a sense of how sinful he perceives himself to be. He is exaggerating in order to prove his point that he is a sinner who does not deserve to be forgiven. I find it interesting that folks will try to draw literal conclusions and build doctrines on extravagant language in a poem!"
And even more to your idea that Jesus wasn't capable of sinning "because He is God" as you stated. Temptation without the possibility of acting on it is not temptation at all. There's an old story about a pig who walked past the candy store every day. He bought candy every single time, until one day he realized he needed to lose weight. Well, he only managed to go two days on his diet before he couldn't help himself anymore. He hurriedly ran down the street to the candy store, only to discover that it was closed for remodeling. He congratulated himself, saying, "I've done a good job today! I did not eat a single piece of candy!" The moral of the story is that it is very easy to claim you are not tempted by something when you lack the ability to act upon temptation. In Hebrews 2:17 it says Jesus had to become like his brethren in all things, and Hebrews 4:15 clearly says he was tempted in all things.
by Shtal on 23 April 2013 - 12:04
Carlin wrote: There is no biblical basis for the necessity to confess one's sin in the presence of one in a particular office, period. "There shall be then no mediator...". If the Bible is your anchor, you should become a bit better acquainted with what it says, as opposed to being subject to the many contrived institutional machinations prevelant in "christianity" from its inception.
With all do respect, I am not here to test you - but can you provide scripture to back it up?
(My uncle always told me if someone tells you something always ask where it is written)
Shtal.
With all do respect, I am not here to test you - but can you provide scripture to back it up?
(My uncle always told me if someone tells you something always ask where it is written)
Shtal.
by Carlin on 23 April 2013 - 13:04
Shtal -
I did. Do I also need to quote the entire verse and provide you with notation? Sadly, what you lack, would take years of education to address. You really don't know why you do and believe what you do, in its entirety, and are usually too bound with pomp and pride to receive anything. Your argument is flawed both biblically, and spiritually.
BE4U -
The Catholic mindset is so vastly different from the Protestant that you may as well be speaking Mandarin.
I did. Do I also need to quote the entire verse and provide you with notation? Sadly, what you lack, would take years of education to address. You really don't know why you do and believe what you do, in its entirety, and are usually too bound with pomp and pride to receive anything. Your argument is flawed both biblically, and spiritually.
BE4U -
The Catholic mindset is so vastly different from the Protestant that you may as well be speaking Mandarin.
by Hundmutter on 23 April 2013 - 13:04
So that looks like Guy believes innocent babies don't go to Hell.
Why show me that ? I asked what you believed, not him; and
what you said above would seem to indicate that you think babies
can go to Hell.
For once in your life, please answer a straight question with a
straight answer, in words of one syllable, and preferably no more
than one paragraph !
Why show me that ? I asked what you believed, not him; and
what you said above would seem to indicate that you think babies
can go to Hell.
For once in your life, please answer a straight question with a
straight answer, in words of one syllable, and preferably no more
than one paragraph !
by BabyEagle4U on 23 April 2013 - 13:04
LOL Carlin.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top