Personal Protection questions - Page 2

k9hooligan, This opens a real can of worms.DH gave some excellent advice as did others. The problems with your desire and the advice you get is that it is extremely limited to what anyone can write here. There are so many different things to look at. We could spend all day on what a good trainer is, for example. Everyone thinks they are a good trainer and most any trainer can put on demos for you with just about any dog and will leave you impressed. I can make most gsd's look great, but that does not mean dog will work when needed. Which brings up the dog himself. Does the dog have the courage, hardness, civil drive or sharpness to be counted on in a difficult situation? Who is going to evaluate the dog for you? Do they know pedigrees? Do they know who produces what I call "no nonsense dogs", serious about work. Dogs that are aloof and have no interrest in being played with, petted or fed by anyone but you or your wife. You are starting off with your back to the wall as you do not know what to look for, who to look for, and it won't be taught on this message board. You asked about Dobies. Now you are really asking for another can of worms. You asked a good and a serious question that deserves a good honest reply. So I will say that you need to find someone that can help you that has nothing to gain from what you purchase or who you go to for training, otherwise you are always going to face the possibility of not getting what you really want. A good PP dog is always going to be a certain liability. A good PP dog will always think bite if in doubt and ask questions later. It will be your respsability to keep the public safe from the dog. Again, there are so many variables in what you are asking that it is impossible to give you a simple answer. You may just want to go with a strong male that is civil but very managable. I don't want to confuse you any more. Just know that there is far more to this then you realize. The bottum line is that YOU need to learn about dogs. YOU need to learn what a GOOD TRAINER is, YOU need to LEARN WHAT A GOOD DOG IS,YOU NEED TO LEARN WHAT TO LOOK FOR AND WHERE TO FIND IT. I cannot emphasize this last part toooooo much. Other wise you will always live in confusion and your lack of knowledge will lead you down many wrong streets. Follow up on DH request that you email her, good place to start.

In the words of Fritz Biehler, "If you need a dog for personal protection, go buy a gun."

I wish to correct myself on one point. I stated that " a good pp dog will always think bite if in doubt and ask questions later". This does not necessarily have to be the case. There are good dogs that do have some discernment, are very protective wihtout being " trigger happy". I was speaking more of my own preferance. When it comes to my wife, family, my preferance is a dog that will not have to take much coaxing. However there are many dogs that can travel with you, meet friends, enjoy children, etc. and serve as a pp dog. Much is built into the dog, genetics, and much is in training and early upbringing. Again though, I stick to advising you to learn all you can about working dogs, breeders, pedigrees, and trainers. Educate your self as though your wifes life depended on it. And as spook said, buy a gun unless your wife is like mine and refuses to use one. The dog should at least give you time to get away.

One last point k9hooligan. I would be cautious of anyone willing to sell you a well trained PP dog with having a few training classes with you to ensure you know what you are getting and that you can handle the dog.

Probably the safest advice i can give you would be to purchase either a young dog that has been well socialized and started with this work, or a nice puppy so you can work witrh the socialization and train the dog exactly to your specific needs. Trust me i am in the business of security dogs and executive and personal protection but you have other demands here which is right now your wife and probably down the road children. socialize, socialize, socialize. You can have the best of both worlds if the training is clear for the dog to understand so. Threat Verses non threat. We have trained and placed many of dogs from the low end auto sales guys up to high profile clientel but no matter how much we socialize and desensitize there are always quirks and questions to work out. I would much rather see someone work with a puppy through there phases of training and get exactly what you want , instead of GETTING EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR Steve

k9hooligan: I believe DH gave you quite a bit of good information. If you are looking for an "intimidating GSD" then I have to respond by saying mostly ALL GSD's look intimidating but that is not to say that they would have the capeability to actually bite someone in a real life situation. If you or your wife are not in a direct threatening situation then I'd say you do not have a need for such a serious dog (PP). Because a dog participates in the sport doesn't necessarily mean it would be suitable for PP, SAR, or police k9. The internet has such a broad range of info. and websites that will have a newbie's head spinning off their shoulders. For instance, if you type in personal protection dogs under any search engine you will find hundreds of websites all over the US claiming to have "executive protection dogs", the "best of the best" in PP dogs, the best quality imports and 25+ years of training; the prices will vary from anywhere from $3000.00 - $75,000 (yes I have seen rip off artists trying to actually sell "executive level" trained dogs for that much). No matter what you want to buy please please please do yourself a favor and find someone to guide you to someone they have personally dealt with before you buy anything. If you don't I could almost guarantee you will get ripped off BIG TIME! The benefit of SCH to someone new that wants to own a PP dog is that it teaches you as the owner/handler to have complete control over your dog. This is a MUST; not an option (unless you got a whole lot of $$ to dish out in lawsuits). You can't expect to buy a trained dog, have it delivered to your home and that's it. You gotta understand the dog, his training, his genetics and then you must find either a skilled trainer or a good SCH club that will teach you how to handle your dog in all facets of everyday life. A vicious dog is not a "trained dog" not a PP dog or even a correctly bred dog. It's a dog that lacks the nerves and confidence to perform correctly; hence a big big liability. Also keep in mind that the more you pay doesn't necessarily mean you got a top notch dog and the cheapest dog isn't gonna be a "bargain". People don't sell top notch dogs for peanuts and the people who typically love the breed, love to train aren't out trying to sell dogs for crazy $ but merely a fair price according to the dogs true value in training and pedigree. If you are truly serious about purchasing a dog many people on this database can refer you to good people that have nice quality dogs. This process will take you some time; but be patient there's much to learn and consider.

I don't think a gun is the answer for my wife. A dog can not be taken away from it's owner and used against her and I. I also don't see her answering the door with a gun in her hand. We are in a decent neighborhood so I don't have the need for an extremely aggresive dog. Just one that is protective of its home and family. Is there anyone on here that sells trained adult dogs and is near Indiana. I don't think that I should buy a trained dog without consulting with the trainer and seeing the dog in action, in person. I do not have the time to go through training a young dog myself. The Eurosport web site is interesting but it is so far away. I checked out the vomhaus web site mentioned above. It has two dogs that are not yet trained yet. How long does it take to train a dog for what I am looking for? I don't understand that by mentioning a Doberman, it opens a can of worms. I guess because this is a German Shepherd site, that is why you said that. You are correct. There are hundreds or more sites that advertise every kind of trained dog. I understand that I and my wife would need to be trained in the proper way to have and care for an already trained dog. Seems like a large task, to obtain a professionally trained personal protection dog, and not get ripped off or sued. Maybe an alarm system installed in my home is the way to go but our neighbors alarm went off (it was accidental), and no one came to check it out for over an hour. They were not home, but we saw what time the police came and our neighbors told us what time the alarm went off. Thanks again. I will be searching, when I have time.

Contact Mike Diehl of http://www.diehlspolicek9training.com/intro.html he also works with Eurosport and is in your area. He is as good as they come..........

k9hooligan, Two things, first on the Doberman issue. It is extremely hard to find a good PP Dobie. Unless things have drastically changed in the last 15-20 years, the hardness, courage etc. has been bred out of them. They are not what they were in the 50's or 60's, You would be looking a long time to find a good PP Dobie. Just my opinion, that is why I said you would be opening a can of worms. You can still get good Rotts for PP if your looking for a short haired dog. They are strong and certainly can stop a man. Again though, you need to be discerning. Second point, myself and others are trying to help you not get ripped off. You are a big $$$$ sign walking around, and some of us are trying to protect you from the maggots out there that will sell you Rin Tin Tin on the special of the week. You have heard from some reputable people on here that have offered to help and that is the best it will get if you are not able to invest the time to know what your doing. As has been mentioned, the real people that love working with dogs and enjoy placing dogs with the right owners will probably not guage you. 25 years ago I would have loved to help you in your search and educate you along the way for minimal charge, just to make sure you got what you needed and wanted. So start by talking to people that have offered to help and take your time in your decision.

k9hooligan, you should make an email address available, as there are other persons who might could help you, but will not post. They would send you email.