Hard Keeper - Page 2

I would never give a dog with sensitive gut garlic and onions - and I would feed MORE times per day, rather than less. Feeding multiple times/day (at least two, or more smaller meals) will help her utilize the food you give her better, she will waste less. Canned food - I never recommend any of it - it is pretty bad for them - but for weight-gain it works really well. I recommend the best brand canned you can find - blue buffalo, wellness, or other brands not found on the grocery store shelf. Another thing that can help digestion and appetite is adding probiotics, enzymes to her food in powder form. Good luck with her - molly

Ok,let me answer some questions- I've had her since she was 7 weeks old. The breeder and I stay in close touch (she has both parents who are good solid dogs). I've been bouncing this off her and we're both at an impass with her various issues. I like to keep my guys light but not "supermodel" thin. She's 67 lbs right now and is BONEY! I think that her weight would be better at 72-75(that's where her mom and sisters are riding right now, with the same build).She is a bit wired, but I pretty much have a handle on what will set her off. It's a good thing I love this dog, I'm telling you! The whole weight loss/IBS type stuff started towards the end of the time where she was whole. She was gotten with the intention of being a broodie but because we lots of issues with her reproductive tract, and the spaying (almost lost her on the table when she hemorraged...you have no idea!), she's now a house dog. After the surgery, that's when her weight really dropped off and just doesn't want to stay on. VomB, I do feed her 2x/day to make sure that she always has something for her body to work on-otherwise, I get what I call the empty stomach pukes... I have had her stool tested - she has come back with e coli and...my mind jsut went blank...anyway, she's been on three different antibiotics,a little preg, Panacur, and a number of other things at all different times. I had figured initially her weight drop was due to the raging hormones but that doesn't seem to be the case. Oh, the blood in stool has ranged from bright red to kind of ruby red - we figured that her bleeding was lower tract rather than upper. My old vet is very, very good and very thorough. She was also part of a very well established and recognised practice, so there were lots of resources. Problem is that she moved to Chicago (you all are sooo lucky to have her) and I'm in the process of trying to get established with another vet. Before I put her through any more stuff, I wanted to see if I could get her to settle a bit. All of the information I've gotten has been great - big hugs to all. If there's anything else, throw it on out there

Ok then,so now I am also thinking lower GI but I still question IBS. I hope it isn't a cancer ,that would be horrible. Did they look at a diverticulosis ,anything along those lines? What about has the dog been scoped,is that available to you? Has the dog been checked for lower ulcers? although that is a long shot IMO. What is the nearest vet school to you? any possibilities there to get more of a work up? Just some ideas. You didn't say how much and how often was/is the bleeding but keep in mind,when you lose blood you also lose calories. Seems there is still more than meets the eye going on here. D.H. has some great input regarding diet that is worth trying,she /he knows alot. I hate to be redundant but something just isn't sitting right with me on this.

I agree something is missing here. Good luck and to be honest I would have her checked by another vet. Nothing against the one your using but I have seen occurances like this and the vet was very good but somehow was "missing" it and when another vet got involved he found the problem. Just my opinion.

Being on the thin side could be normal for this bitch. However, the bloody diarrhea is not and might be aform of IBS. If all else fails you might want to consider having an intestinal bioposy done. She sounds a lot like a young bitch I once had. She had eosinophilic gastroenteritis, an very serious disease that is incurale but, in some cases, it can be controlled with a special diet and steroids. I believe E coli is in the stool of all species of animals. Culturing it in a stool sample does not really mean anything. It is what gives stool it's unique scent LOL. If you have a well and live near a farm, the odds are that you might have e-coli in your well water.

I looked up e.coli. Some strains are normally found in the intestines of all animals while other strains cause disease. I guess it's not good enough to just culture a stool sample for e. coli, one would need to take it a step farther to identify the strain. If you just take a stool sample and streak it on a culture plate, it will grow a tremendous amount of e.coli in a very short timeframe and the odor will literally knock you over. I used to do a lot of mastitis cultures for a farm vet (dairy cows) and he always needed to be very careful when collecting the samples so as not to contaminte them with fecal material. Not an easy thing to do when working in a dairy farm environment.

All the different treatments she has had could be one reason for all the reactions. Frequent antibiotic use brings a host of problems such as unfriendly bacteria and candida. First, get a good probiotic supplement. Then the basic cc&p diet, that you add butter or oil to after you see that the dog is handling the new diet. That is your baseline diet for a while. I have used it with success on sick dogs, its often the only thing that works when everything else has failed. The potatoes give starches, the cottage cheese protein, the butter or oil give fat. Your dog could live on this diet if she had to. If this was a person I would suggest a detox once diet has stabilized the situation. Can't do that when the body is compromised though. Need to get things more balanced first. The bloody stool is a big concern. At least you know that are probably not looking at stomach issues and probably not at small intestines either. Or else the blood would be digested and black. The combination of loose stool and fresh blood point to the colon. In the colon the extra liquid of the digested food mash is usually absorbed. This is not happening properly here. The colon is also irritated, hence the blood. So stop the irritation. Give the digestive tract something to fight with (probiotics). Then allow time for everything to settle down and actually heal before you go back to regular food. Most issues continue because as soon as stool is better, whopdidoo owner goes back to commercial food though the body is not ready for it yet and the system is stuck in that irritated state. If the diet change does not work, then you know that you have a deeper prorblem. So by way of elimination, try the cc&p diet. Then add different food stuffs to see what works and what does not. Then from the list of foods that work for your dog you can choose a commercial diet, or expand on the cc&p diet a bit. Another thought... dehydrated raw food... I wonder if molds could be an issue during the dehydration process? Or during storage of the dehydrated raw food? Your dog could be extra sensitive to molds. Even small amounts that are basically still within a safe level, just not for your dog. The dehydrated food might be more suseptible to mold than kibble. That is just an assumption, a thought, no idea if that is the case, but it might be worth a look. The other issue is that all the greens are raw. Raw veggies cannot be digested properly by all dogs. Do they use sulfites in the dehydration process? The final thought, after I looked at what this Synovi G3 stuff is (glucosamine/MSM supplement). Glucosamine supplements can upset the digestive tract. That is the first I would elinimate for now. If things get better, that might be cause. Then use a chondroitin/MSM supplement instead. Most dogs or people who canot handle the glucosamine do ok on the chondroitin. They both do the same. MSM tends to relieve digestive issues. Boy, wouldn't that be nice if the solution could be that simple, just eliminate the glucosamine from the diet... Lets hope for it.

How long has she actually been having"massive amounts of bloody stool" ?( your words)

Many GSDs have subclinical parasite infections which do not easily show up in stool exams, even with the flotation method. Some old time vets used the purged stool method, giving the dog some salt water to force the parasites loose. Often repeated daily stool analysis is needed to find subclinical cases. I think there is a new lab test for coccidiosis which is much more sensitive. Giardia is also hard to diagnose, as is subclinical hyperthyroidism. Some vets would treat the GSD with prophylactic antibiodics such as metronidizole (flagyl) and afterwards alternating courses of panacur and pyrantil (ivermectin). A dry, dull coat is a sure sign of a vitamin or nutritional issue, perhaps a food allergy or sensitivity, or malabsorption problem, albeit minor. A significant number of GSDs havserious allergies or delayed IGA sensitivities to wheat and corn or other foods. Best to try a prescription diet from your vet which is very bland for a while or rotate foods to see if the dog responds. Good luck. Over time if you hang in there you will most likely get this problem solved.

Desert - she's periodically been having those large amounts for a little over a year. It seems if I don't catch her in time, her body just takes off and I wind up with a mess everywhere (the house, her crate,...). She's been hospitalized twice because she's gotten so dehydrated. I feel really sorry for her,because she is a love....