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by dogshome9 on 06 February 2009 - 07:02
From what I read on here I have no Idea why people would even advertise their dogs on this board.
We have 2 definate types of GSD and to each his own, we will never agree but don't crucify the other just because it is not your type and you do not like what you see. I am all for Show Line but I won't knock the Working dogs just because it's not my type. I can still see the beauty and appreciate the drives that makes them what they are.
We have 2 definate types of GSD and to each his own, we will never agree but don't crucify the other just because it is not your type and you do not like what you see. I am all for Show Line but I won't knock the Working dogs just because it's not my type. I can still see the beauty and appreciate the drives that makes them what they are.
by funky munky on 06 February 2009 - 11:02
Dogshome9, very good post, in particular the very first line. I totally agree!!! liz
by Peggy on 06 February 2009 - 12:02
A roach back is when the back is higher than the wither""
This puppy is not roach backed, it is actually a very nice puppy and i find it amazing that people have nothing better to do than to rip other peoples dogs apart
This puppy is not roach backed, it is actually a very nice puppy and i find it amazing that people have nothing better to do than to rip other peoples dogs apart
by missbeeb on 06 February 2009 - 13:02
Peggy, you're right... worse than ripping it appart, is ripping it appart when you clearly don't know enough to be capable of seeing what's in that one crappy photo properly!
I hate this business of posting some other buggers dog to ridicule... and it's generally done by those that know sod all. It must be very hurtful for the owners.
by vivek on 06 February 2009 - 14:02
Crybuck25, you just started a very active discussion. I am the one who may rake up the hornet's nest.. First and foremost a small intro. I am a Champion GSD breeder who started out by beating police forces at obedience competitons. I am a GSD lover first and foremost and a trainer and breeder next. I expected most arguments to subside after Videx's post, but no all that has happened that working and show people have got polarized. The pup in question is a perfect constructed dog that I would be proud to call my own.
Point in case all humans carry extra long leg bones at teen ages compared to their body or trunk length, another case in point is that when we are still toddlers we have larger heads in proportion than as adults. The pup in question has very ideal femur as well as tibial bone lengths. Just because a certain %age of dogs are working and not show specimens do not necessarily mean that they are better built for work. Yes Covy Tucker Hill dogs of yore were ridiculously angulated with abnormal bone lengths. Though I breed show dogs I would like to state that the present day 21st century German show dogs seem to be losing their extra small hocks which were so useful in helping a shepherd dog turn either in shepherding work or schutzhund trials.
Let not our partisanship ruin the world's most beautiful and intelligent breed. What is needed are beautiful working dogs and workable beautiful dogs. I cant stand brainless dogs or cripples who move beatifully when the long leash is tightened up. Similarly I cant see many of today's slightly built working dogs dealing with a recalcitrant ram in a bad mood, leave alone a large flock. There are stiil kennels like Kirchental who use their super glamourous dogs to shepherd their sheep tirelessly all through the year.
The dog in question has been stacked to show a ski hill topline and turn of stifle. Let's not go ballistic with mud slinging.
Maybe sometime later I could enlighten those who did see a quality pup grow up from the moment it was born. Incidentally when it is my own breeding I pick the pup I want to keep at birth. Something not uncommon with top breeders in all breeds.
Try it sometime, its not tough if you bred a couple of litters. BTW in 30 years I have bred just a dozen litters. I have enjoyed training other trainers as well as show handlers. Just learn to cherish every moment of joy with your dogs and don't get into slanging matches like those between Nikon and Canon fanatics on photo websites!
Point in case all humans carry extra long leg bones at teen ages compared to their body or trunk length, another case in point is that when we are still toddlers we have larger heads in proportion than as adults. The pup in question has very ideal femur as well as tibial bone lengths. Just because a certain %age of dogs are working and not show specimens do not necessarily mean that they are better built for work. Yes Covy Tucker Hill dogs of yore were ridiculously angulated with abnormal bone lengths. Though I breed show dogs I would like to state that the present day 21st century German show dogs seem to be losing their extra small hocks which were so useful in helping a shepherd dog turn either in shepherding work or schutzhund trials.
Let not our partisanship ruin the world's most beautiful and intelligent breed. What is needed are beautiful working dogs and workable beautiful dogs. I cant stand brainless dogs or cripples who move beatifully when the long leash is tightened up. Similarly I cant see many of today's slightly built working dogs dealing with a recalcitrant ram in a bad mood, leave alone a large flock. There are stiil kennels like Kirchental who use their super glamourous dogs to shepherd their sheep tirelessly all through the year.
The dog in question has been stacked to show a ski hill topline and turn of stifle. Let's not go ballistic with mud slinging.
Maybe sometime later I could enlighten those who did see a quality pup grow up from the moment it was born. Incidentally when it is my own breeding I pick the pup I want to keep at birth. Something not uncommon with top breeders in all breeds.
Try it sometime, its not tough if you bred a couple of litters. BTW in 30 years I have bred just a dozen litters. I have enjoyed training other trainers as well as show handlers. Just learn to cherish every moment of joy with your dogs and don't get into slanging matches like those between Nikon and Canon fanatics on photo websites!
by VonIsengard on 06 February 2009 - 15:02
I apologize for the going OT, I will address the attack on myself one time then let this thread lie.
Yes, I do own a dysplastic dog. I did not breed her myself, nor do I use her for breeding. Please excuse me for not throwing her away like a piece of trash because I could not make her a brood bitch. Instead I made Aila my AKC dog and put a UD on her. We are working toward a VCD1 this year.
The bitch I DO breed, **I** took from an 8 week old puppy to her current titles. If you were a member of SchH USA, which I doubt you are, you could look up past issues and see for yourself that I was the one who titled her.
Of the whopping 2 litters I gotten out her (Thats right, I don't make my dogs puppy machines), two bitches were show rated SG1 and SG2. The SG2 bitch is now V, SchH1, and KKL1. The SG1 bitch is CD, TD, and working for higher titles. The others are in experienced family homes. The second litter is barely a year old, the bitch we kept is my daughters working dog, she has 2 legs on a rally title and I plan on keeping everyone up to date and she progresses, she will earn her SchH title this year or the nest, because I will not breed her without it. One male is in an experinced AKC obedience home, and another male I sld on a show contract and he earned a VP rating with nice praise from SV judge Morton Goldfarb. the LC bitch in that litter is in a pet home on limited registraion.
So yeah, no "top" VA dogs yet, but I think its a damn fine start, better than the BYBs and puppy farms who wouldn't know a V dog if it bit them in the behind. You're going to insult me for trying to do things right? Oh, and EVERY BUYER who I have sold a pup to which even a touch of white was told very clearly it may not disappear and would be considered a flaw. Only 2 pups have matured with any substantial white mark. It happens. This drivel is making me late for the vet, I aplogize for going off topic, again, everyone have a lovely day.
Yes, I do own a dysplastic dog. I did not breed her myself, nor do I use her for breeding. Please excuse me for not throwing her away like a piece of trash because I could not make her a brood bitch. Instead I made Aila my AKC dog and put a UD on her. We are working toward a VCD1 this year.
The bitch I DO breed, **I** took from an 8 week old puppy to her current titles. If you were a member of SchH USA, which I doubt you are, you could look up past issues and see for yourself that I was the one who titled her.
Of the whopping 2 litters I gotten out her (Thats right, I don't make my dogs puppy machines), two bitches were show rated SG1 and SG2. The SG2 bitch is now V, SchH1, and KKL1. The SG1 bitch is CD, TD, and working for higher titles. The others are in experienced family homes. The second litter is barely a year old, the bitch we kept is my daughters working dog, she has 2 legs on a rally title and I plan on keeping everyone up to date and she progresses, she will earn her SchH title this year or the nest, because I will not breed her without it. One male is in an experinced AKC obedience home, and another male I sld on a show contract and he earned a VP rating with nice praise from SV judge Morton Goldfarb. the LC bitch in that litter is in a pet home on limited registraion.
So yeah, no "top" VA dogs yet, but I think its a damn fine start, better than the BYBs and puppy farms who wouldn't know a V dog if it bit them in the behind. You're going to insult me for trying to do things right? Oh, and EVERY BUYER who I have sold a pup to which even a touch of white was told very clearly it may not disappear and would be considered a flaw. Only 2 pups have matured with any substantial white mark. It happens. This drivel is making me late for the vet, I aplogize for going off topic, again, everyone have a lovely day.
by steve1 on 06 February 2009 - 18:02
I do not know nothing about showlines but you cannot condemn any Dog on one photo and more so a puppy which has not finished growing
Take me for instance, i was a skinny little Lad but not the case 20 years later as good a six pack as the best of them and fit to boot
Probably not the case now 40 years on but who would have thought when i was a lad i would change so much, so no give the Pup a bit of credit, He looks a fine Lad
Steve
Take me for instance, i was a skinny little Lad but not the case 20 years later as good a six pack as the best of them and fit to boot
Probably not the case now 40 years on but who would have thought when i was a lad i would change so much, so no give the Pup a bit of credit, He looks a fine Lad
Steve
by Xeph on 07 February 2009 - 00:02
I love the pup's rear....he'll grow into that. The topline is hideous :-p
by july9000 on 07 February 2009 - 01:02
I would love to think he will grow out of it but I was looking at his parents and they pretty look like him at an adult age..It doesn't look good..:(
Of course it is only a picture..and a puppy but if I was lokking to purchase him this would be a concern to me..Both parents can give you a pretty good idea of what a puppy will look like as an adult..
Of course it is only a picture..and a puppy but if I was lokking to purchase him this would be a concern to me..Both parents can give you a pretty good idea of what a puppy will look like as an adult..
by Xeph on 07 February 2009 - 02:02
His mother isn't "bad" in terms of angulation, but that godawful roach certainly makes her look worse than she really is. If it weren't for her hump, I think she'd be a really pretty bitch o.O! What a waste.
I have no comment on the father >.<
By the way, totally unrelated, but I want this puppy!! He's GORGEOUS!
I have no comment on the father >.<
By the way, totally unrelated, but I want this puppy!! He's GORGEOUS!
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