DEFINE THE TERM "NERVY" DOGS - Page 4

"I thought the malinois was the closest to the GSD. I like to compare and contrast the 3 breeds." - Wrong guy to probe for answers on those topics. Dutch has some Shepherd blood, so does malinois I THINK but again, I don't pay any attention to any other breed but GSD, and even then "working" GSD only. I guess you coud say I have a high threshold for any other dog but GSD. When I see another dog... One glance... Oh it's a Mali. Or a Lab. Or a whatever. Cool. Then I go on about my business.

ADI--lol. My head turns to when I see a gsd. I always have to go up to the owner and ask questions. (not american lines)  I also don't see dutchies and Malinois in my area(near my home, petsmart, dog park , etc). My friend is the only one I know of in the area who has 3 dutchies.  I see too many gsd though but they are american lines few german...haven't seen a working line gsd in person.  When I go to watch my friend train its the dutchies, dinos, bull dogs, few other breeds I see. Sad isn't it......

amysue--sounds like a good concept...I'm waiting to hear replies on your input.

Okay boys you have talked yourself in to  poor nerves are good I have heard it all now. ADI you had it right dont buckle in to these goof balls. 

The  nervy dog is never bold or confidant lets straighten this out first. He may go after anyone and anything to bite  but that is a response to poor nerves and poor thesolds with  FEAR in the driver seat.  . 

The malls who saw my grandson more than likely had never seen a child of that size immediately wanted to attack this was obvious, hair raised like a razor back pig lunging and growling,  this is FEAR and has zero to do with courage being bold or confiant the dogs bad nerves are creating this reaction. Take a strong dog and he would look at the child be aloof and maybe keep a eye on him more curious or alert posture and not be aggressive but that is a strong dog with stable nerves and zero fear. The harder dog has no fear of something different in size, or that he has never seen and does not   feel  threaten to attack it but  he is strong not weak.  Take a hard dog who is calm but once provoked with a direct threat would tear you butt up and never be a flight risk that is courage and hardness. Same thing applies to hard corrections a nervy weak dog cant take it and will be handler aggressive as a response to leave me the hell alone again fear driven,  The top trainers will test young green dogs to see if they can stand up to the pressure as top sport requires a stronger dog to take heavy handling required on a lot of dogs. There are some schutzhund dogs that are 99 percent prey and would not protect as well but still are confidant hardness and naturally protective is on the individual dog.

My advice to you is to call Mike he will not blow smoke up your butt someone who is by far more knowledgable than anyone posting here myself included on the subject of nerves and thesholds. Bad nerves is bad nerves dress it anyway you can but never a positive unless you just want a dog to go out and attack everything that moves or run with the tail tucked when anything moves not much gray area with these types of dogs, . Nervy dogs are never a good thing in any amount some are not as noticeable with heavy socialization but they should not be breed.  Mike or Nate one have a young Zidane son puppy and I heard from a club member it is showing already to be  decent but watch hips with Zidane because of Magbert . When you look on the data base for advice nine times out of ten no one posting is qualified to give you a honest intelligent answer owning a titled dog is not criteria for giving any advice but when you actually title then you have some credibility.  . 
  
Call Molly she has plenty of excellent  puppies and she has I think some Tierkerhook lines and I bet they are not nervy if she is breeding them as she above all is a excellent breeder . When I stated watch in general the nerves are not strong on these lines does not interrupt all from that line are nerve bags it means be aware this is one of the things most of the trainers see in this line more often than some lines. Look at the dog first and the pedigree second is my motto.  This is why some of these lines are used more for Police as control and stability are not as critical as schutzhund and those dogs of lessor quality can slip through this window. There was a nice puppy from Mollys kennel 11 months old awsome female  I cant find it now but these are the things you need to take notice of not the ones who have not trained or produced anything. . Molly works her dogs and I have seen  a fair sampling to know she ca

she can read temperaments and drives.

Darylehret go to Georgia and woop up on Zidane and send video please! My suggestion is to call Mike and Molly that might best be able to explain a hard dog minus the bad nerves. .

Your quote "you prefer more sharpness for work"  the dog  you like him or not who gives a shit opinions only have weight from someone with knowledge/experience.  There is not one top  trainer I have ever spoke to about this dog  who has dealt with him/ caught him/ seen him, etc   who does not say  the same thing " the dog is the hardest  dog they have ever seen civil/power wise"  to also have the clear head in my book that is a great dog. You are right I looked at your website and your taste in dogs  is not mine for sure.  If my nerves are bad thats a good thing for you right. I am just sharp! 

Again to RDH:  call the pros man the trainers who will give you some useful information on selecting what you want to be quite honest you might not want something from Zidane from most  accounts not pet home material or a beginner could  be overwhelmed they are stable, super drives  but a handful. Talk with Mike, Gabor, Nate, Molly, Eric Beasley, Dean Caldron, Diane Seaman, Pia,  Shelley, T Floyd, Gary Hanrahan, Al Glovenik, M. Hamilton etc etc  or look up Schutzhund USA and they list clubs call the training directors  and  get as many opinions on any line you are thinking about the more you search for advice from the better sources it will give you a general consenus and  one of them might even have a green dog again the best choice if you can swing it.

Lot of great posts here.

When I think "nervy" I think unstable, overreactive, lacking real courage, not clear in the head, any combination of those things.  

Bingo Kczaja that is what most want to stay away from. .  

It's a totally subjective "opinion" pertaining to a combination of character traits that could mean too many things.  Kind of like "great dog".  Now, if I use a term like "prick", we might all be on the same wavelength here.

I've owned and seen plenty enough hard/civil dogs to know that won't benefit me much herding livestock.  Head out of the box, if you please.  To each his own, and I'm sure that all the forementioned schutzhund experts wouldn't ever disagree on anything.  I've always appreciated the ones who make an effort to set the record straight, and bring forth clarity to the confused masses (i.e., Molly, Nate).  But I'm really glad you could be here too, mr. Dog Rules.

So now we've concluded that what, low thresholds are useless for schutzhund?  Because they tend to compromise civil drive and hardness?  Tiekerhook dogs are nervy (unless they're Molly's), and Zidane progeny are too much for beginners?  Could you define "handful" please?

Cracking topic & discussion… I’ve learnt a lot and was thinking about this last night when taking the hound for his evening gallop. But there was one thing I kept coming back to & couldn’t quite figure out. When people talked about thresholds, thresholds for what, people, animals, noises? And with what reaction when it was exceeded, barking, alertness, fear, aggression?

 

And then I came in this morning and read Held’s comment “In a good working dog you should see low threshold for desirable traits and high threshold for undesirable traits” and it all became clear. Thanks Held – top man.

 

I do have a follow up question mind, it seems from the discussion that thresholds are pretty much genetic but is it not possible to increase a dog’s threshold(s) via good training/familiarisation or decrease them via bad training/mistreatment?

 

AandA