Training & Trialing - Page 4

Wussup,

That is ok....I don't care about getting caught!  If I have to move my shoulder when the judge isn't looking to make my dog correct in the basic position then it isn't a big deal.  If i have to drop my hand out of the position that you would hold it when jogging to que or reinforce my dog to do the stand out of motion, I would rather loose 2 points for the handler help than 10 points for my dog failing the exercise!  It is only smart thinking if you NEED to do it!  It has made the difference between some people being on the podium and not being on the podium!  Idealy the dog SHOULD do the exercise but they do have a mind of their own and need reinforcement!  I also have a dog that is getting too trial wise!

Vickie

www.PowerHausKennels.com

i realize the urge and desires to win and get the dog titled. i to have been taught the little tricks the tells as i call them but a good judge is looking for them .why can't the dog play fair would you like to lose to a dog lesser then yours because the handler was sneakier then you or because your dog was  the better dog ?what would you get the greater satisfaction from .for me it would be knowing  i had the better dog.not the better cheat..

Dogs are superb at reading us, we all give tells, intentionally or not.  Cues or "tells" are not something that masks the quality or inferiority of the dogs, nor are they illegal in any way shape or form, so it is not cheating. 

On another issue, I am always confused by people who act as if titling is beneath them or not worth their time, yet when it comes to their breeding programs their dogs are all either bought titled or advertised as "from schutzhund lines".  You can't have it both ways. 

well thats the way it works .i still say its cheating your dog.

I train for fun.  I trial because I have a bit of competitive streak.    The girls don't care if we trial as long as they get to bite the bad guy.       As long as I'm having fun and the girls are progressing I'll keep training.   Okay, as long as I'm having fun.     I can't be training to get titles to prove for breeding as my girls are all spayed. 

And Animules said it all!

Vickie

www.PowerHausKennels.com

to each his own .we can not all agree or how mundane life would be.

"Cheating your dog".........WTF are you talking about?  Handler help is just a training cue to the dog.  Give us an example of exactly how this is "cheating your dog" or cheating anyone?  Again, it is not against the rules to give handler help.  Too much handler help can result in points off, just as double commands results in points off...As a matter of fact, handler help (inadvertent or on purpose), is nothing more than a double command anyway. 

Anyone who says they don't give handler help is a liar or just plain dumb because most of the time we don't even realize it when we are doing it.  Now you can say you don't give handler help ON PURPOSE and maybe that's true, but none of us are robots nor do we live in a vacuum, so all of us give handler help in one fashion or another, whether we realize it or not.  Some  are just better at it than others.

If you look at the rule book you will find handler help mentioned in the evaluation sections following the description of most of the OB exercises in both the IPO & Schutzhund  sections.  The rules pretty much say additional commands, physical help from the handler are to be "evaluated accordingly" - not disqualified.

what ever take the chill pill we don't agree my trainer told me it was cheating! that's what the German's who taught her said it was .I'm not going to argue with this trainer she'  was  hard as nails,on me and the dog. i trained two to three times a week with her for years.and watched her train her own dogs.so i will buy a young semi green dog train with a new trainer.see what they say .OK now I'm seven or eight years older so this wont be easy for me .but maybe we will meet on the field and i will sneak my dog some tells that's it for me .on this subject.i will leave it to you wise young folk to set the rules.and ill have some tea.

Maybe you need to READ the rules, then maybe you would understand.  I'm sure your trainer wanted to make sure you did not give any OBVIOUS handler help.  This is one reason why it is so important not to train alone.  The other day I was walking by a sliding glass window when I was heeling my dog and I looked like I had some major tics  going on. 

So why not ask your trainer what we are talking about, I'm sure she will clue you in, it's not a secret anyway!