oversize? - Page 3

The highlighted comments must NOT be ignored when reading the Interview with Reinhardt Meyer.
STATEMENT OF REINHARDT MEYER
Oversize in dogs and bitches
A problem which has pre-occupied the SV for years if not for decades. Incidentally, this is also a problem apparent in other breeds, where there is certainly often more latitude in the breed-standard.

The size problem has already been tackled in the breed-committee under the leadership of my predecessor. However, I have demanded the strict implementation by all breed-judge colleagues of the directive from our breed-committee: namely, to unequivocally demote those dogs which very obviously exceed the tolerated parameters, and thus to send a signal to breeders and exhibitors.

The SV has always followed the way of proceeding in small steps and this been justified, leading to success in the medium term.

I will adopt this method with the size-issue. It is important that, with this matter, decisive selection occurs at our chief breed show, i.e. the Bundessieger Zuchtschau. Here we have the greatest possibility of demonstrating responsibility towards the breed and of taking care that the future representatives of breed, i.e. the representatives

Part Two
the representatives that are used extensively, must be right to a considerable degree in the criteria demanded – in every important aspect.

Subsequent discussion by David Haydon:

1.   Oversize

I.    It was agreed that this problem would not be solved easily or within a short period of time, but that perhaps within 8/10 years or 4/5 generations and a start would be made to stop any further increase and a slow reduction commence.

II.   This problem of oversize is further complicated by two very important factors:

a)   The majority of the leading V.A. and spitzen V males and females all have similar bloodlines and these are generally genetically dominant for oversize.

b)   The reluctance or even refusal of either the show or the working/sports dog breeders to consider using these alternative breeding lines.

Part Three
III.  I gave the example of what happened, I believe it was, in Australia when height was to be strictly controlled; the result, I understand, was that the “correct height was achieved but the dogs had shorter forelegs and overbuilt bodies!

IV.  R.M. also emphasized that, whilst a reduction in overall size was very necessary, the other breed characteristics must not be overlooked, namely that of a Gebrauchshund or working dog breed.

V.   this problem will be resolved over a period of time by strict measuring at all breed shows particularly at the Sieger Show (BSZS) and most importantly, the judges at all shows, principally at the Landesgruppen and Siegershows, all oversize dogs will be relegated to a lower show position. In a democratic society, this is probably the only acceptable method available to demonstrate that the size must and will be reduced.
But as I pointed out, there will still have to be “unofficially agreed” by the Breed wardens and show judges just what are the “acceptable heights” in order to arrive an “agreed maximum”.

Size is a problem in most countries through out the world and many previous postings related to this. Mr. Payne of the Videx kennel pointed this out to every one months ago and named the top VA dogs in Germany. The German measuring stick stops at 65cm for these animals. Some of the top winning Males in England are over size and many of the imports, how ever size is one fault and should be judged as such. One of the top winning imports and an English Champion failed his breed survey in Germany twice and with a lot of faults. On the same topic it was suggested to raise the height, why to accomadate the larger animals, and in my opinion should never be done.

EL

Is it me?  I think there's been quite an improvement in the UK re: size.  When I think back to just 10-15 years ago, some of the dogs were huge.  Most of what's in the ring today is considerably smaller!

Thanks for all comments.

Regarding Mr.Meyer's interview, I agree with him very much.

The only thing that made me confused is how can a guy who wants to cut the oversize gave an oversize dog VA1? As I know, the other participants were nice dog as well with standard height.

I know this will take some time in order to cut the oversize but if we don't start now when will it be done? As an member of WUSV, we don't want Indonesia be a haven for all rejected oversize dogs from Europe.

I think all the Judge need stick with the standard and start to disqualify big dogs, so people will no longer attracted to it.

If a male or female exhibits the correct conformation they shouldn't be excluded because of size.

The way the breed is going very shortly the GSD is going to be the same size as a whippet.

I doubt they will become the size of a whippet - slight exaggeration there.

I would love to see GSDs  being within the breed standard for height.  Round here there are so many oversize and unsound examples and it is across both sexes.  My boy is currently top size under the standard and my girls are the same and I regularly get commented to about how small they are!  The last girl we lost was smaller and we often were asked what was she crossed with!  Surely the standard was set for a reason?

Beepy, I have the same problem. My male is 65 cm but mostly the males I see on the streets in the UK seem to be bigger. And, yes, I agree with you that the breed size standard was set for a reason. Watch any schutzhund trial and you can see why.

Having said that, if there is a widespread problem with anything in the breed in a particular country – from hip dyspasia to size – I can see that it might be unrealistic to expect to eliminate it overnight. That is no doubt why Reinhardt Meyer talks of a gradual approach. And no doubt the priority list in different countries can be different.

Your posts explain it all, Tess.

Appreciated you putting up the details of that interview, Videx.

Haydon’s attitude seems a tad judicious yet, always good to see that the issue remains very much on the front burner.