DEFINE THE TERM "NERVY" DOGS - Page 2

I've understood that the nerves of mals have greatly improved from what they were, say 10 or 20 years ago.  But where in another recent thread, Tiekerhook breeding was described as "nervy", I'm not sure how emphasis on grips could be considered as being compromised.

darylehret--I've heard by some people that tiekerhook produce nervy dogs as well.

Do most of you equate nervy  with sharp?

"When you say nervy the term that comes to mind is nervous." Well, to a degree, yes. It means they are easily alerted to anything and everything.
 
"I know that nervy doesn't mean skittish like." Not necessarily skittish, as in afraid, no. Sometimes yes, sometimes, no. It just means that the dog is EASILY rattled by something as higher threshold dog would not even look up.

Those dogs are just ... let me see the term I am looking for... set off and alerted by anything. OMG, the leaf has fell of the tree. OMG, the wind is blowing! OMG, the grass blades are moving! OMG, in the sunset I can see my own shadow! OMG, there is cows 6 miles in the distance grazing! OMG the water in my water bowl is rippling when I push it with my paw! OMG the AC unit outside just started cranking! Stuff like that. Low threshold dogs are annoyance to me and there is nothing that could be done to "up the low threshold" it's genetics. For example you can TEACH the low threshold dog - it's okay when the wind is blowing - relax. And they would. But, as soon as the wind blows and a tree branch cracks and falls under pressure, they will exibit their old behavior, so there is nothing you can do about threshold.

As somebody suggested, I want nothing to do with dogs like that as I find it annoying and faulty to be set off by anything and everything, they sure do make an awesome alert dog cause they do't miss anything. Most Dobermans are the same way. I will give 100$ to anyone who can sneak up to a Doberman, sleeping or awake, laying down or sitting, or standing, it doesn't matter.

"In discussion of threshold high and low. Low threshold has to do with the ability of the dog to go "crazy" "hyped up" by everything vs high threshold is the opposite???" -  Well, they get alarmed or alerted by EVERYTHING, not necessarily go crazy and hyped up. Higher threshold dog would either ignore the issue altogether or give it a second of his time by looking at it and go on with their life. Oh, a branch fell of the tree, big deal.

"I have a leerburg video talking about threshold I can't remember if that was what he was talking about. I have to review it but i thought his term of threshold had to do with pressure and defense." - Low threshold dogs cannot do well for the most part much pressure and defense 

At what age(earliest) can you tell if a dog has a type of nerve issue? -  It is possible to see it in puppyhood by closely observing the pup. It comes with the experience, like anything in life. Once you see, say 30 pups in the span of a week, for example, a careful observer can see a whole multitude of differences between them.

Clearer?

ADI--Thanks...boy, you really make it easier for beginners to understand. Its just not this post. I've read other post by you and you do a good job on explaining and commenting on things.

OK its funny I have a doberman right now who will be 4 next month. I spoke to my friend who trains and understands dogs( try to ask her about this topic but didn't explain it well)...i asked her if she thought my dobie was a nervy dog. She knew the dog since 6 months old. She doesn't think so.

Your scenario(s) on low threshold was funny. I have a better understanding on it now. Since it is a genetic trait...we should be able to see it in the parents of the puppy then? By watching both parents I should have a ideal if the pup will have issues. Now, if one of the parents do exhibit nervy(ness) or low threshold, what are the chances of all pups having the same issues? Or could it happen to a few pups in a litter? Upon viewing a litter you can read a 8wk old pup if it will have nerve issues or low threshold?(most people get the pups at 8wks)


This is real good I'm taking the 2nd part of biology right now...and this is the topic we are discussing(genetic/traits). My instructor hates dogs (he thinks they are stupid), but he uses them in some of the examples in the lecture so I pay really close attention because everythingelse is so boring (yawn).

Since it is a genetic trait...we should be able to see it in the parents of the puppy then?  - Very likely, but not 100% certain, it could go higher up the chain, like grandparents etc... But, you can stack the odds in your favor bu observing the parents, yes. Mother is way more important for a good puppy than the father. People can disagree till the cows come home that I am wrong, but good female is IMPERATIVE on how the litter will turn out.

For example, get a Zidane from Haus 7s and a shitty female, the litter will be a VERY mixed bag. Yes, he is one of the best dogs in the world, but when you ... let's put it this way: You have 2 cups of water.

One is boiling hot, that's Zidane, for example. One is icy cold. That's a shitty female.They are both water, as in they are both GSD. Pour those 2 cups tohether amd mix them, what will you get - lukewarm water. You get 2 boiling pots together, you have to get by the laws of physics- a bigger pot of boiling water.

There might be a diamond sparkling in the litter, but there might not be. It's a friggin' Trail Mix - maybe I'll get a cashew, maybe I'll get a peanut, but I wanted a damn pistacchio!

That is the essence with nervy dog and stuff that I don't like - unpredictability. I like things clear - coulda, should,a woulda, what if, maybe, perhaps, could be, might be etc... annoy me.

Now, when you have a good mother - that's way better, since she will spend most of the time with the pups up to 5 weeks, pass off her genetic traits to them, teach them manners, and MOST IMPORTANTLY beam with calm, nurturing and confident energy that they pick on, that's great.

Good father didn't do jackshit, just passed off HIS good genes, cleaned the pipes and changed the oil in the engine and moved on with his life. All you got from him is genetics, the rest comes from mother.

"By watching both parents I should have a ideal if the pup will have issues." Yes, good idea. Watch the parents AND the puppy. All the puppies in the litter.

The best litters out there are always pretty consistent, that is a sign of a goodbreeding. Out of say 9 puppies in the litter, there may be like 1 or maybe 2 shitter types, at most 3 of them don't cut the mustard - the rest are rock stars. That is a sign of a good breeding, good parents and a good litter.

"Now, if one of the parents do exhibit nervy(ness) or low threshold, what are the chances of all pups having the same issues?" - See water analogy above. If it's only 1 parent, I don't think ALL puppies will inherit that, but it's there. Save yourself time, energy money and grief down the road and get a pup from proven producers. Any jackass can get 2 stupid dogs and let them go to town. Great breeder breeds great dogs. We have enough crappy dogs as it is.

My opinion is ONLY good dogs should be bred. That'll happen when Pink Floyd reunities and when pigs start flying, unfortunately.

Adi  One of the best descriptions of a nervy dog- the German Shepherds main fault is nerves today and they manifest different and to some degrees-a little nerve does put good alert and hair trigger defenses that a clear calm dog that is so confidant might not react to-thus the thresolds might be so different to degrees to help or prevent a dog from sport or to make it more suitable for police/street and a good trainer can determine.  The nerves are always genetic no way around that but good conditioning can mask this flaw in some dogs and they look fine on the field until something they are not as familar with presents then it comes back and you will see it- the tierkerhook lines come to anyones mind for nerves and a lot of folks equate that to hardness real dog etc when in reality it is a lower theshold dog and not hardness at all- same thing with corrections on a dog with low thesholds they will climb that leash quicker than a confiant dog who can take a hard correction. The react to other dogs and  everything as the nerves are thinner- I have never seen Zidane but the folks in Europe told me  he should have stayed there for breeding as one of the all time greatest producing dogs in history . Those who have some of his offspring before he came to the US say that Zidane has nerves of steel especially to be such a civil  hard dog.
 
I saw some mals the other day and tested them and the drives were over the top could not be better but the thesholds were so bad I dont think they could even do Police work as the surfaces froze them and as anything moving alarmed them to the point of distraction and even reacted to my grandson who just stepped out  on the porch  a toddler sent them both overboard - you cant do anything with the extreme drives if the nerves are so frayed it is just facts. the bite on the sleeve was easy to get but not quality you can almost see the eyes roll from side to side with a weaker grip because of the nerves no power or calmness at all the dogs bite early maybe quicker than a confidant dog but not quality. Novice folks would see them at nine  months or ten  not sure what the guy said  and think they were the bombs what i saw was bad nerves.

 

"the German Shepherds main fault is nerves today..." - German shepherd AS A BREED in general? Ok, I agree. Plenty of good, not buckling under pressure dogs out there, though.

"The nerves are always genetic no way around that but good conditioning can mask this flaw in some dogs..." Okay, sure, I agree, yes. But I don't want to mask jackshit, I want a dog that needs no masking, or it is not a working German Shepherd.

Or, if I happen to have a dog that needs masking, then, fine, I'll take him/her as far as he/she can go, never offer him/her for breeding and keep him/her as my buddy and a family member till the end.

I have never seen Zidane - He is in Alabama, USA now, getting up there with age. I don't hink he's got much more left 2 or 3 years, maybe.

"but the folks in Europe told me he should have stayed there for breeding as one of the all time greatest producing dogs in history." - True, that dog is Superbowl, World Series and NBA Finals in one. One cool mo fo.

I have been seriously considering gettgin a pup off him, then my current dog convinced me after a long bout with Pano that is a good dog. Whenever I see or hear about Zidane, I always smile. He would have brought smile to Max Stepanitz, too, if he could see him.
 
"Those who have some of his offspring before he came to the US say that Zidane has nerves of steel especially to be such a civil hard dog." - I have been following this dog for a long time, since WUSV 2004 when he mopped the floor with everyone, then ate the mop and a janitor and pissed on the floor again. Then looked around and wondered: "That it?"

Can't offer anything about Malinois sorry. That breed just plain does not interest me at all or any other breed but a GSD, ever since I was 9 years old and saw a movie about a WW2 Nazi military guard dog that a small boy found in 1946 in the Yugoslav mountains. He saved the dog bfrom the bear trap he got caught in and they struck a wonderful friendship. Ever since I saw that movie - that's it, hold it all - that's the dog. That was in 1980, when I was 9, never changed my opinion.

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