The Vegas Factor????????? - Page 2

Let me tell you why I don't like so much those VA rated dogs, and it is not just because I think that there are lower seat dogs that are just better.

VA GSDs are like model, just like in real ife I wouldn't mind sc*rewing some of them I would defenietely not mary one of them, :) hahaha They might be preaty too look like but they are not a good "live with" material.

By the way if you think that Vegas or any of the VA dogs are realy representation of the bread something that all gsd shold try to live up to. Prove it get Vegas to do sports and compeat with some of the best working dog out there so that he can prove that he is a total dog.

Oh hold on that wil never happen why? that dog can't work for shit. He wouldn't be able to work if his life dependednt on it. And you call this a tota dog? Pathetic .

snajper,

I don't know who you are and I dont want to. But it is really beginning to go on my nerves that you have to chime into everything with "your expert opinion" and " your wonderful choice of language". If English is your second language (just like it is for me), a spell check would be in order and attention to etiquette. Why do you have to use profanity like "s...". Do you think you can score brownie points here?

You act like a "know-it-all" but in previous threads you mention that you are just starting out. This is certainly not the right attitude. And that brings me to my next question: Does your puppy come from titled and breed surveyed parents? And how is it going with Schutzhund training, or are you busy planning your next dog already?

What gives you the right to state that Vegas can't work for s...? Have you seen him work? Have you ever even been to an event like the Sieger Show? Do you even know the trial regulations in Schutzhund? How many dogs have you trained before? From "zero" to "expert" in 5 months with 762 posts already, wow. The last time I questioned your attitude, you stated that "you were just a guy trying to learn".

Also, you avatar speaks volumes about your personality.

Thanks, now maybe you can tell me how much I care of what you think of me lol. :)

You are the one that acts a lot like know it all, and you still owe me any kind support of your last statement that working lines has a substantial back problem comparing to show line (or did you forgot about that one already). I was at least men enough to admit that my observation comes from limited experience with show line. BTW you won't find anything that will support your statement, at least not biased, you know why? Because most show lines are not worked as much as work lines so there is not much to compare to, and any comparison would be biased!!!

I will use any language I want, you have a problem with it? Don't read my comments or responses. "Free world baby weather you like it or not ;)"

And yeah I am a guy that is trying to learn, as much as I can, I been like that for last 10 years of my life that I been into GSD's. And no, I don't think that I know it all. I will even admit that you have more knowledge than me when comes to GSD's. And I respect that. But I won't apologize for not liking most of the VA dogs. It is an opinion and I expect any thinking human to make his own, that's what separates us from animals. You like show line get a show line, you like working lines get a working lines it dose not matter to me. But in my opinion, and I repeat again is nothing but my opinion, most VA rated dogs do not live up to their title, and if they are the best the breed has to offer, I think it's time for me to pick a new one. BTW I think this breed has still a lot to offer, this is why I continue to invest my time and my money in GSD's, and I think that a lot of the VA rated dogs are just representation of what is in the fashion today, and I do apologize for not fallowing fashion.

I still meat a lot of people like you, blindly fallowing fashion, even though a lot of them tried to sway me into believing that show line is on the right path they still keep on failing to do so. But I do dare you to try it. Prove me, show me how bias I am about Vegas, please show how wonderful working dog he is. And if you planning to prove it by showing his bite work on one of the show events do not waste your time because that will never convince me.

BTW to any one that find my language to be offensive, I do apologize.

Sorry for not using spell check, but I don't have it on my laptop, and a lot of the key's get stuck all the time (it's a bit old now).

BTW Silbersee, I don't think that all the work lines are all that hot either, I know there is a lot of issues and people forgetting about the standard, which will most likely hurt the breed in a long time.

Thanks for evaluation of my personality as well, I could have told you my self that I am a 100% a-hole. BTW now I understand why you such a big protector of SL you breed them, that explains a lot. Typical approach of a SL breeder always gets defensive........ BTW I do like both SL & WL I just don't like them all sorry for that  

BTW Salbersee I don't have to expain my track record to any one. Neither from who and what I buy. I am not a breeder and never claimed to be one. But you are, so how many you took national? After all you breed GSD's and GSD is a working dog, so how many dogs you took at least Nationals? (let me guess none?)

 Fully agree Watcher and zacsmum – Linda Shaw’s articles should be compulsory reading for all breeders.

Sniper says: “Let me tell you why I don't like so much those VA rated dogs, and it is not just because I think that there are lower seat dogs that are just better” The Sieger, as for all suchlike, is open to human fallibility/subjectivity, but also merely the culmination of a lengthy and demanding proving process, where not further backed by progeny quality. Are some of the lesser-placed dogs “just better”? Possibly, but on what day and by whose/what criteria - we’re not judging biscuits!

“VA GSDs are like model, just like in real ife I wouldn't mind sc*rewing some of them I would defenietely not mary one of them, :) hahaha They might be preaty too look like but they are not a good "live with" material.” If “model’ defines the best all-round dog the breed has on offer, as finally presented on the day that is, the best apparent compromise between working ability, structural correctness, spirit and temperament and I daresay looks, if not also indicating some preferred direction, the VA’s indeed are it. The perfect GSD doesn’t exist and present Wienerau-style VA’s, as for WL’s, suffers well-publicized faults, inadequate genetic diversity but one. Vegas’ pedigree is refreshingly more open than most. Not “good live-with material”? Compared to what? Ex-Czechoslovakian border-control stock, the ex-wife?

Too much emphasis put on cosmetics etc? Sure, but once a dog meets essentials, why shouldn’t it look good? To the true aficionado the two probably amount to the same thing. What’s looked for foremost by Joe-average, if only as a matter of personal pride? Don’t we constantly strive for beauty or elegance in most things? It’s mostly the result of what one’s brought up with, but the anatomy of some working dogs still makes me cringe. Good anatomy normally equates to good movement, better physical fitness and endurance. 

“By the way if you think that Vegas or any of the VA dogs are realy representation of the bread … Prove it get Vegas to do sports and compeat with some of the best working dog out there so that he can prove that he is a total dog.” How absurd of me to think that by ‘work’ you meant overall versatility, real work in the real world, man’s best helper and all that. Instead, “total dog” minds you of highly regimented, specialized sport competition and flawless obedience. A Mal combined with an electric collar will leave the average GSD for dead, sniper. Heck, it’s tough just getting my keenest worker and cleverest SL animal into the ring: This is soooo boring and pointless and I’m soooo tired – being led to the slaughter here, don’t you know – feet drag, eyes reproach, head droops, posture pitiful. “Oh hold on”, you’d say, “that dog can't work for shit!” Don’t believe it!  


 

Silbersee you tend to get aggressive and defensive if someone doesnt agree with you! Are you planning on getting a litter from Vegas? That should probably tell everyone why your soo aggressive. You talk about beauty? I dont know whats so ugly about the working line dogs? The sable coat, the black mask, DDR coat and colours are just gorgeous! Working lines are beauty+working capability=complete package. So what if most working lines dont show excessive ugly over angulation in the rear. So what if they dont have roached backs! The schutzhund you talk about is just a game of tug and war. Put Vegas on a proper working field where he has to guard, protect and herd, ill see how he does!

Working lines are like Arnold Schwarzenegger whereas showlines are more like Zac Efron!

Silbersee if you plan on getting rude and aggressive please do not bother replying!

Good anatomy normally equates to good movement, better physical fitness and endurance. 
 

Oh really i would think twice about putting foward such statements. The egg beater action in the rear, clumsy manoeuverability in the rear, the roach saggy backs while moving....surely that equates good movement! Read Linda Shaw's article and then put forward such statements. She has clearly penalized excessive angulation in the rear!

“that dog can't work for shit!” Don’t believe it!  

I agree that my statement might have been too harsh. For which I have no problem apologizing.

Please do understand that I am not against SL and not totally pro WL even though I own only WL. I just would like to see both of the lines come finally together. I would like to see the total dog (within the breed) dog that can compete at a highest level in a sport, and present himself as correct looking GSD. And till the day we all start being little open minded it will not happen. I am well aware of the structure faults of WL when comparing to SL, but I refuse to turn my eyes away from the lack of working ability of a show line when comparing to WL. Is just as simple as that.

I still hope that one day I will have a pleasure of owning a correct structure GSD with outstanding work ethic. I would not mind that at all even if he would be 100% SL. I am not against one or pro the other one I am def somewhere in the middle. I want a total dog, and I will expect only a total dog be VA so far I don't see any current VA rated dogs to fit that characteristic. And I am sorry if my opinion offends other people, but I will not compromise only to agree with the majority. I never been a kiss a** and never will become one, no matter if Silbersee likes it or not. Plus I hate breeders that make a statement like "their dog are known for the beautiful color" too bad they are not known for their working ability, as it was indented by the breed creator!!!!.