tracking---am i doing this right? - Page 2

The dog can't touch the article at all, not with his foot or mouth or anything.  You don't want the dog to think of food when he sees an article.  Most people have their dog just platz at the article in schutzhund.  Preston has a video on that site that demonstrates a good way to teach article indication off the track, take a look at that and see what you think.

No matter what training you have done you can always go back and start over.

"so he can figure out the difference in the trail-smell/ disturbed grass= food, untouched grass= no food"

This is what is great about the scent pad method.  It helps the dog determine the difference between disturbed earth and untouched earth.  I was trained to make 3 scent pads about 15 to 20 feet apart from one another, each down wind.  Each scent pad is about 3 to 4 feet square.  I would use a highly motivating soft food like hot dogs.  Stand in the middle of the scent pad and place the food around you.  On the borders I would carefully place the food so that the dog can be crystal about the scent pad and undisturbed  If a few pieces make it to the undisturbed you are defeating the purpose of the exercise.  There is no problem with the dog watching you do all of this.  I would then get the dog, put him in a sit next to the scent bad, let him smell a piece of the food of choice, lightly toss that piece of food into the scent pad and simultaneously give the suuk/search command (if you are saying search for the track what command are you going to use for the blind search?).  I let the dog do his thing.  I like to audibly hear their nose working.  I give no direction to the dog.  I like it when they get to the edges and work from scent pad to undisturbed earth and back, they are learning.  If they go outside the scent pad and come back in I will give a light praise (don't over do it it can be distracting to the dog).  The only time I will give a correction command is for inattention.  Once again this is a light correction also.  DO NOT put a lot of pressure on the learning tracking dog.  I pull the dog off of the scent pad before he eats all of the food.  I give light praise and walk the dog to the next pad and everthing starts over.  I would do this for 3 to 5 days straight twice a day if schedule allows.  I wll delay tstarting using this method until I know I will have the time to do this consistantly.

Next I would do straight tracks only for about 30 paces with food in EACH step, not on undisturbed earth.  Do maybe do 2 to 4 of these tracks a day .  Then I would lengthen the track and vary where food is placed.  Food in the start pad and the first 6 to 10 steps, then skip 2 steps, food for the next 8 steps, skip 3 or 4 steps, food for the next 4 steps skip 5, food for the next 10 steps.  No set pattern, force the dog to use his nose.

Then when you know your dog can follow your track, I would move onto serpentine tracks.  This is where you learn how to read your dogs body lanuage when he is off of or lost the track.

I would modify my dogs diet also as motivation to look for food.  As said before get rid of the jar.  The dog may not touch the article, the indication is platzing/downing with the article between their paws. Also get a video and find a club.

Good Luck,

Kyle

I Love My GSD,

How old is your dog and how much experience has he had tracking?

What's with all the jumping? To the start at the end? And the Mayonaise jar...Seriously?

If you do not have anyone to train with I'd go to a seminar, Steve Robinson, Jaak Schurmann, Randy Rhodes, Dean Calderon, Steve Miller are all excellent.  Sounds like your boy like to track, Since he is pulling you to the flag, II wouldn't worry about him watching you lay it. He also sounds like he loves the work so keep him calm at the end and don't worry about a ball.  The track is the reward.  Use a short line and stay next to him. Once he knows the platz, teach him articles to slow him down. Do not let anyone else lay your track until you get the SchH1.

This tracking site should help you:  http://www.schutzhundtracking.com/

Good Luck and Have Fun,

Madigan

This is an extention of another thread:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/168787.html#169064

Iluvmgsd:   Good advice above...youur trying to get too far ahead   your getting excited too fast.....keep the straight line for a long time ...your dog is not ready for turns......not yet     keep lengthing the long line as your get him better...dont let him go off track   ,, you control that by pointing to food if he starts off  and say      search      search   no other talk     praise him at end   only    search     point  and walk calmly beside him.......this is the teaching method   later you will learn to give him more leash...sounds like you are getting it...

Buy the book     Therory and Methods of Schutzhund    by Susan Barwig and Hilliard     order it from   any book online.site...get if immediately and will answer and give all kinds of help and diagrams and must dos and must nots........later you can get videos and other more complicated books.....do not think too far ahead,,,,,,articles is a seperate matter and dont try to second guess him.....teach one thing at a time.......

'Articles are not introduced till way down the line.........way down the line     concentrate on long ,,well laid tracts and keep ing him going in the line and doing what he knows to do  and the nose well in grass       use soft  tiny pieces   throw the maynoise jar or anything other than  you , the dog and the food....his reward at the end  and praise and love....flag at the beginning  and at the end    so you know where your going..........Im so glad your doing this with him.........I guess the storms didnt get yu  .....we had some 70  mi winds for 10 minutes and some damage to roofs and everything topsy turvy here......

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Iluv - article indication is taught separately off the track. Also as suggested ask around and perhaps find an expert in tracking to give you some lessons to get you started - but be aware there are big differences between Sch tracking and AKC tracking.  Where are you located? Perhaps we could suggest some contacts.

Sue have to respectfully disagree with this comment "The dog can't touch the article at all, not with his foot or mouth or anything.  You don't want the dog to think of food when he sees an article.  " 

The rules give you several choices as to dealing with articles. The dog may touch an article if that is your choice of training - the only caveat is the dog must indicate consistently. He can not pick up the first and platz on the 2nd. My girl Rem is my service dog and retrieves for me in daily life so to make it less confusing for her she was taught to retrieve the article to me ( Also needed since can't walk fast enough to get to her). I simply state to the judge beforehand that my dog will pickup the article. This actually makes it tougher on us in scoring tho 'cause the rules require that she actually be judged on the quality of the retrieve as well.

Also we use food as  a reward on articles once the dog has the concept. A little kitty canned food really clarifies that articles are something important to pay attention to.

kITTY CANNED FOOD???????????? PLEASE TELL ME YOUR KIDDING.?    HAVE YOU READ THE INGREDIENTS ON THAT CAN?      A PUPPY CAN HAVE SERIOUS PROBLEMS WITH THE TAURINE IN CAT FOOD....BLEED FROM THE KIDNEYS AS IS NOT FOR DOGS.....ASK A VET  ....HE WILL CONFIRM THAT...MANY A PUPPY HAS DIED FROM EATING THE NEIGHBORS CAT FOOD.......

EVEN A LITTLE CAN FOR A TREAT CAN BE VERY BAD.....HAD THIS HAPPEN TO A FRIEND AND I WAS IGNORANT OF THE FACT,,,,,,IN FACT ,,,DID NOT BELIEVE HER WHEN SHE TOLD ME TO NOT LET MY COCKER EAT THE CATS FOOD,,WHEN SHE CAME TO VISIT WITH HER 5,000. 00 CAT.....i CALLED MY VET AND HE CONFIRMED IT...

AN ADULT DOG CAN GET BY WITH IT.....NOT A PUPPY  OR UP TO 3 YEAR OLD....

CATS HAVE TO HAVE A VERY HIGH CONTENT OF TAURINE FOR THEIR KIDNEYS   DOGS CANT DIGEST IT AND EATING OF IT CAN CAUSE THE BLEEDING....

Cats cannot produce Taurine so it is given in their food in higher levels....much higher levels...

Dogs dont lose it and they may eat a small amount of taurine  which does come from Fish and other meats....Taurine is used to treat some diseases in dogs  , like epelipsy, and other problems and is prescribed by a vet for those purposes only...in smaller doses....Cats have to have TAURINE  in their food where dogs dont...need it provided ...

Taurine is a beta amino acid required by cats but not dogs. There are two reasons for this. First, the liver of the cat has a limited ability to make taurine, as the rate-limiting enzymes required for converting methionine and cysteine to taurine are only minimally active in the feline liver. Second, cats lose taurine in the secretion of bile acids (whereas other mammals also use glycine in the conjugation and secretion of bile acids, freeing up taurine for other uses). Found in the nervous system (including the retina) and muscles (especially the heart), taurine is one of the most abundant amino acids in the body (and is the most abundant free amino acid in the heart). It is thought to help regulate heartbeat, maintain cell membranes, and affect the release of neurotransmitters in the brain. Taurine also protects the heart from calcium overload and assists in calcium uptake by the heart cells during periods of hypoxia (reduced oxygen levels).

I guess I could start a new thread on this   but I would never encourage anyones puppy to eat canned  cat food...just wanted to bring this out ......didnt mean to hijack a thread...however, anytime someone mentions something any of us feel needs discussing,,,It doesnt bother me to jump in and discuss it.....Im sure Iluvmigsd will benefit from this as all of us will to....

TIG:  I stand corrected!  Thanks for the information.  So to clarify, if the dog can't indicate on one and pick up on the next, he must do it the same way on all articles.  There would be points deducted if the dog  platz  to indicate an article then paws it or picks it up.