Natural vs AI Breeding - Page 4

for every case of it being helpful, I can see 1000 where it won't be.  Genetics are meant to change, to mix to evolve.  I don't think studs from 20 years ago should be added back to a breeding pool and I have a dog from over 10 year old frozen, litter of 10.  I think people should be forced to evaluate the dogs around them or traveling to do it.  Good dog breeding takes work, do it.  I think opening up AI will just result in more bottle necks and more intensive marketing especiallly from breeders that do very well selling perceptions.  

The thing about genes is they don't disappear. You may think it's safe to breed 5-5 on any dog out there, but if you go back further in both the sire and dam's pedigree, you may find significant backmassing on a number of dogs that can result in genetic problems. For instance, if you go back 6 and 7 generations on my female, you will find Palme von Widstieger Land a total of 14 times, and some of the popular showline sires as many as 12 times. Could this explain why my dog (and her sire) have allergy problems: chronic itching and gunky ears? Yes, that's inherited. I have a friend with a dog that's so allergic he's nearly died several times, and he's cost her thousands in vet bills, supplements, etc. The stud's owner confesses this is not the first problem dog to be produced by her sire, yet she CONTINUES to breed him!! 

You CANNOT weed all the harmful recessive genes out of a gene pool. THere are just TOO many of them. A healthy gene pool is meant to be heterogenous, not homogenous. Yes, I realize, linebreeding is a necessary evil to fix desireable traits. But there's another way of doing that, too. Back in the early days of the breed, many breeders would look at the phenotype (physical appearance as expressed by the genes) and breed like to like to get what they wanted, rather than linebreeding.

I'll say this again. Linebreeding is really a form of inbreeding, and as anyone who has studied even high school genetics will tell you, too much inbreeding is a BAD idea! 

my understanding is the original plan was to not allow any single dog or blood line to be in ''demand''. That is the reason why a male can only be used in Germany 60 times per year. If a male can not make an impact on the breed with 60 litters in a life time, something is wrong. Making breeding easier will not make it better. The GSD community should be as tight as possible through cooperation and work. Natural breedings are another way to help make the breed better. Wouldn't a smaller population with a wider blood base be good? 

SS there's something I want to ask you. When you got this showline that had Palme 14 times in the ped why did you buy her? And if you didn't look that far back can I ask why not?

As far as linebreeding, it's not inbreeding--too much of anything is a bad idea. But it is a tool, just like a lead and collar are tools. Anyone can abuse tools. And if one doesn't have the knowledge to use a tool of any kind then they should either learn more or give it up.

I think there is much to be gained by going back on the old lines. One can look back and see the difference and a lot of subscribers to this theory is the dogs were better then. I happen to be one of those--whatever flavor they are. Which is why I went back--what I have seen out of those old lines brought back to life is very impressive. I think there is more to it than just grips, IPO/ScH titles and high leval OB--I believe the dogs were more balanced than today's dogs and a lot more versitle and self thinking. Again JMO and soon I will know more as my pups are due the first of next week.

I think it would be a good thing if Germany would approve the use of fresh chilled or frozen semen.  It would give breeders in other countries a better opportunity to use their Va dogs. Personally I'd never ship a bitch to Europe for breeding unless I could travel with her and even then I'd have to give it a lot of thought.

I understand the idea behind not wanting to use frozen semen collected from past dogs, but IMO  it's good to have that option. Currently I am waiting for a puppy sired with frozen collected from a top quality son of my best dog that died in 1992. I am very excited and happy to have a chance to own his grand child since those lines were not preserved and I feel they should have been - not a GSD. My GSD's best progeny is the result of a frozen semen litter sired by her g-grandsire a highly titled, well bred import sired by one of my favorite German males.

 The thing about choices is that they give all of us the chance to either take advantage of the opportunity to use frozen semen or not. Denying the option of using of frozen semen benefits no one as far as I can see.

I bought her because I liked her bloodlines and I liked her straight non-roached topline and her excellent bone.  She herself is a total outcross. I didn't realize at the time there was all that backmassing. I never thought to look that far back!

I've learned an awful lot in the last 7 years since I purchased her... :(

Like they say, if it works it is called linebreeding.  If it doesn't work it is called inbreeding. 

In the absence of tight linebreeding or inbreeding in the first 3, 4 generations, it's debatable how much influence any one dog more than 4, 5 generations back contributes to the current generation.  I'm not a fan of placing too much importance on backmassing.