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by pod on 17 January 2009 - 10:01
Re Wildmoors photo. Yes agree with Blackthorn. That's looks like a dog in a tie, he may have a perfectly normal backline when not in that eh... predicament. The spine is a flexible structure and should ideally be assessed when the dog is freestanding or moving on a loose lead.
by jaymesie51 on 17 January 2009 - 10:01
pod yes i am in the uk scotland and have been owned by this breed since 1976 when i bought my first german shepherd and yes you are correct when you say there were a few roached backs in the early eightys where the back was most definately higher than the wither but selective breeding has almost eradiated this fault so as i said earlier we will have to agree to disagree on the term of roach i have looked at all the definitions i can find on the word roach and all say a curve in the back .it does not say higher than the wither but does not say level to or below the wither either.
jim h
jim h
by Sue B on 17 January 2009 - 11:01
Forgive me (even if there were any hills for it to swim up), i'm still trying to work out where the withers are on that darn fish !!
Regards
Sue B
Regards
Sue B
by Videx on 17 January 2009 - 11:01
Over the last 30 years I have seen roach backs on some German Shepherds. One thing they ALL had in common was the 'roach' was a permanent curvature of the spine, beween the wither and the croup. I examined a few of them with my hands, and I was struck by how I could NOT press the 'roach' into a straight or dipped p[osition. They were definitely 'roach' backs, however I have seen very few over the years. Many GSD are stood short and hunched up, many are stood with their hinquarters bent in an over- angulated position. This can give the impression of a 'roach' back.
Many people LOOK with their eyes using their brain in a very 'simplistic' way. By that I mean they do not carefully consider WHY a dog is looking the way it does at any particular moment or for a longer period when it is in a stationary position. This will continue to be the case - I leave them in their "self imposed and fixed ignorance, and their fixed biased opinions".
The tragedy is that the Kennel Club appear to have listened to these ignorant people. Thank god our breed is a German Breed, and the SV and WUSV will protect our breed from any effect the Kennel Club will inflict on our breed here in the UK.
The WUSV Clubs, BAGSD & The League, must now organise numerous WUSV events here in the UK, Regional Events, and Local Branch Events, as well as the Sieger Event. They also need to explore the potential of a Registration System for our GSD 'outside of the Kennel Club' and through the SV if necessary. The German SV Breed Standard, which in turn is the WUSV standard WILL prevail, come what may.
Many people LOOK with their eyes using their brain in a very 'simplistic' way. By that I mean they do not carefully consider WHY a dog is looking the way it does at any particular moment or for a longer period when it is in a stationary position. This will continue to be the case - I leave them in their "self imposed and fixed ignorance, and their fixed biased opinions".
The tragedy is that the Kennel Club appear to have listened to these ignorant people. Thank god our breed is a German Breed, and the SV and WUSV will protect our breed from any effect the Kennel Club will inflict on our breed here in the UK.
The WUSV Clubs, BAGSD & The League, must now organise numerous WUSV events here in the UK, Regional Events, and Local Branch Events, as well as the Sieger Event. They also need to explore the potential of a Registration System for our GSD 'outside of the Kennel Club' and through the SV if necessary. The German SV Breed Standard, which in turn is the WUSV standard WILL prevail, come what may.
by Sue B on 17 January 2009 - 11:01
Not wishing to Carp on about it but I actually thought perhaps the 'Dog Fish' (see photo below) could be used to show the desired topline. Notice how the wither (highest point above the lower fin (which one could take as its leg), then gentle slope of straight back to loin and croup (which sits between the two fins on top) and of course with tail descending behind 2nd top fin. Notice the 23degree angle of croup, however where the upper arm, shoulder and hindquarter are is a little difficult to establish. Am I being serious......OF COURSE NOT, but it was fun emphasising just how ludicrous trying to have a useful, intelligent debate on this database really is and the reason that other than to look up Pedigree's and Progeny many no longer frequent it.
Happy New Year
Sue B
Respect to Misbeeb, Funky and Jaymeisie for all your comments and efforts on this message board but believe me most of the time you are conversing with idiots.
THE 'DOG' FISH
Happy New Year
Sue B
Respect to Misbeeb, Funky and Jaymeisie for all your comments and efforts on this message board but believe me most of the time you are conversing with idiots.
THE 'DOG' FISH
by pod on 17 January 2009 - 12:01
"Forgive me (even if there were any hills for it to swim up), i'm still trying to work out where the withers are on that darn fish !! "
LOL Sue. No not suggesting a fish has withers... and not comparing the construction of a GSD to a fish as someone else thought. No I used the fish to illustrate a roach backline and that a roached line remains roached whatever angle you hold it at. Ok, not everyone got it.... thats ok :)
LOL Sue. No not suggesting a fish has withers... and not comparing the construction of a GSD to a fish as someone else thought. No I used the fish to illustrate a roach backline and that a roached line remains roached whatever angle you hold it at. Ok, not everyone got it.... thats ok :)
by Wildmoor on 17 January 2009 - 16:01
This type of debate as been going on for the last 20+ yrs, if all the German line dogs have a roached back like some believe then surely in appearance their backs would look like that of a Borzoi or Bedlington! In a breed where it is not natural then there would be spinal compression of the disks which would also cause other medical difficulties ie pain, breathing difficulties, degeneration of disks etc
Some one post some xrays of these supposed roached backs then I will believe the evidence
Some one post some xrays of these supposed roached backs then I will believe the evidence
by Kaffirdog on 17 January 2009 - 18:01
This is certainly an age old fishy discussion. I found a reference to the backlines in one of my books from the 1920's but they were called carp backs.
Margaret N-J
Margaret N-J
by funky munky on 17 January 2009 - 19:01
SueB, loved your post good laugh, needed that. Believe me i know most of the time we are conversing with idiots, can't help myself sometimes. liz
by Xeph on 17 January 2009 - 19:01
my question is, since when are the topline and the back two different things?
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