$100K Clone Mutt - Page 5

"Genetics play a huge role..." -
I´m with you 100% ( maybe even 110% ), I am only fighting against the myth of single genes being responsible for special characteristics of creatures. If life would be that easy, all of us would be perfect.
A certain behavior always is the sum out of a lot of genes, combined with the result of socialisation, personal experience, and, in case of our working dogs, training.

I don't know of anyone who believes that a single gene is responsable for individual traits. Being noise sensitive, for example, is believed to be genetic but i doubt there is one gene responsible. It takes more than one strand of hair to make a dog's coat.

And "bucking" is NO genetic trait, but the result of a lot of different genetic traits, RESULTING in "bucking", "good grips", good "gait", good "nose"...
Are we okay now?

No, to the comment you made about similar build and temperament causing the bull to buck same as the donor. It is much more complex an that, Susie. I can watch a bull buck and say, damn! He bucks like soandso! Then learn it is a clone of that bull. Listen, a pen full of PBR bulls are ALL athletic, muscular, fit, red, black, brindle, white with black inside ears and end of nose, speckled...that is not what makes one buck like it's donor and the other buck like it's mother who is the daughter of a great bull. And of corse it is more than one gene responible...I don't know where you came up with that argument, since nobody suggested it.
And like Hired Dog said about the mali pups coming in for a bite, untrained....I have five week old litters of pups that when they are biting pant leg, when I remove them they come in and get as deep onto my leg as their mouth will take in...and bite hard sinking teeth into flesh. It's genetic.

Susie, no wonder there is so much problem with the GSD if the desired traits, such as grips, are not viewed as being genetic. Instead, trying to annalyze each contributing factor and isolating them is counter productive and impossible.

I really don´t know how to explain - simply said there is cause and consequence -
Genetics are cause - grip or bucking are consequence, not cause.

This whole discussion is useless at best - as long as breeders are able to breed for working dog traits they like, everything is fine.
As long as your pups do what they do ( sounds VERY good to me ) you simply don´t need to care, if this is genetic or the result of genetics, the pups will be good either ways...
 

Susie, as a Buddhist, I understand the law of Cause and Effect very well. In this case, Cause is breeding two dogs together that you know will produce a trait you want, grips, hunt, prey, defense drive, etc.

Effect is the resulting puppies that show you the traits you wanted to see.

And I most deffinately care whether or not traits are genetic...that's why I can reproduce in litter after litter same desired traits. And eliminate from breeding the undesireable genetic traits ( lack of nerve strength, for example) And this discussion is useful as it has brought out some very important elements of breeding. It's not just training which makes a good animal, dog or bull.