Food Aggression (Hand Feeding Stopped Working) - Page 3

This problem can be fixed through correction and consistence. This problem if the dog is smart is a ten minute problem to fix, but the handler here is not experience. If not so smart 3-5 days. If the dog is not learning after the appropriate measures are taken by knowledgeable handler, then dog is no good. The brain is not wired correctly. Most people fail to understand that some dogs lack the ability to learn or control certain behavior.

would some one please expalin to me why you would negotiate or compromise w/ a dog? if you put is food down and walk away that is exactly what you are doing. the problem is not solved it has grown 10 fold. While you are concerned about aggresion over the food you should be looking at the aggression itself. IMO aggression is a learned behaviour (the more success a dog has thru aggresion the more likley it will use it). Every time he shows aggresion, you leave him alone, and he wins. SO THE QUESTION IS, WHO IS TRAINING WHO? you display a behavior the dog doesnt like (approaching his food), he shows aggression (much like the alpha dog at a kill), and you the lower rank dog walks away. At 18 months he's no where near as strong as he will be at 3yrs. its only a matter of time before he decides he doesnt want to give you the ball or get off the couch. Imagine how frustrated the dog will be when he realizes he must teach you all over again what he will and will not allow. you may be able to teach him to let you near his food but until you solve the aggresion problem you've only been granted a stay of execution

As Hexe said, this dog could profit from tough love, nothing in life is free. One of the exercises is teaching "mine"..... "look"..... "yours". Pretty obvious how it works - hold out your hand with a treat in the palm, when the dog goes for it immediatley close your fist saying, "mine". Repeat til he "gets it" and do not draw your hand away. After he learns that go to teaching "look". I did that by tapping the side of my eye with a finger and saying to Blitz - "look". I've also used a tennis ball to teach "look" by holding the ball along side of my eye tapping and using the "look" command. When he got the picture and looked into my eyes and hold the look for for a few seconds, I would then opened my fist telling him - "yours" and he was allowed to have the treat. It didn't take him very long to catch on; he's very food driven. Poor Blitz never gets to eat anything until I go through the entire mine, look, yours routine and if he does end up with something he shouldn't have, the "mine" command will tell him he has to drop the item. One word of caution, if you decided to try the tough love/NILIF exercises, you have to do it consistently with everything. The dog cannot rush down the stairs in front of you or bolt out the door until you tell him it's "OK". It is ongoing, not a quick fix when you have a dog that is a challenge. I'm not a dog trainer either other than I've done OB with most of my dogs and put AKC degrees on a few, but I've never had a dog I could not take food from. Some of the kennel dogs would try to run off with their prizes and I often had to chase them down, but when I reached into their mouths whatever they had was dropped immediately. I wouldn't want any of my dogs to ever think I am not the alpha of the pack. Others disagree with the food issue and believe that one should pick their battles so why hassle a dog over food. I guess it all depends on your way of looking at it and your individaul situation. I lived alone with sometimes 15 large very strong dogs so I needed to have a lot of control over them. Getting bitten breaking up a fight was a big enough worry, I didn't want to get bit removing a dead rat from a dog's mouth. Frankly if I had a dog I could not break of trying to bite me just for moving his food dish, I would have to give some serious thought to doing something radical with the dog. A dog like that is an accident about to happen and a major liability.

This is an accident waiting to happen! There is definitely as has been said before me a leadership issue, but also some training problems (which of course is part of leadership). Doing NILIF does not a leader make. All day long I"m telling people I can give them exercises to mimic leadership but unless they have the leadership "attitude" they won't get far and the dog will see right through it. So there needs to be the combination of the right exercises and the right attitude. Sometimes it's not easy...I myself can take that roll easier with other people's dogs then with my own...but even with my own dominant schutzhund male I've fixed the food aggression. Also, if every time the dog growls you move away he only learns he can control your movement. By the same token, if every time the dog grows defensive about his food you attack him and you're not a strong leader, he only grows more defensive about his food. If you rush in and attack him, then next time he may choose to get you before you get him. Might be ok unless you're slow or don't want to put up with that. All my dogs from the time they're young learn to back away from food...if they do on command, they get something better. With pet dogs you constantly see the dog that growls when you get near the bowl BECAUSE the owner kept trying to take the food away to "test" the dog...pretty soon the dog learns that every time you approach the bowl, something bad is going to happen and they hate your approach. Positive punishment only works when it's done with the correct timing, speed, and done at a high enough level to make the dog understand you mean business. If you're unable to do that, either find someone who can, or don't use positive punishment but get a good trainer or behaviorist (I'm not a veterinary behaviorist but I am a trainer specializing in aggression and I also have my own schuthzund dogs...I do work along side many vet behaviorists in areas they can't get to etc) who can help you use other methods (for instance, counterconditioning the dogs attitude towards the approach on the bowl). He needs solid obedience around distractions working your way up to the food bowl, a solid leadership program complete with your correct alpha attitude AND the APPROPRIATE leadership exercises, and also to understand that he can relax around his food bowl. You also need to set this up to do it safely...just feeding the dog loose in the house allows him control over the situation. Just feeding him in the crate would protect you, but this food guarding you're describing isn't the problem...it's the SYMPTOM of a much larger problem. Without seeing the dog it's impossible to tell you how to do this, and no sane trainer would take the time to talk someone through it over the internet, but there is ALOT of other stuff you can do besides the "one size fits all" way. And I NEVER treat aggression as a single event. Rather, aggression shows itself when layers of stress are put on. Doing just a few exercises, or punishing the dog isn't a magic bullet in and of themselves, but combining the correct responses in every situation, and setting yourself and the dog up for success can work wonders, and better your bond instead of destroying it. Just my 2 cents...as they say, the only thing to trainers can agree on is what the third is doing wrong:-)

wscott00- here here! I totally agree. IMO if you feed him in his crate and walk away, he will likely start guarding his crate too. This is a messy situation. I would seek professional help, this is a tall task for a novice to deal with on his own. Just make sure you go over with before hand and approve of the methods the trainer you choose uses. Is he still guarding your bed? Has his behavior improved or gotten worse in other areas?

I remember this dog now, this is the same dog that would come out from under the bed at night, like a monster, when the master approached the bed to go to sleep?

i think the problem can be fixed, but im not sure if jack can or is willing to employ the methods ive seen to be succesful. He may consider either living w/ it or placing the dog.

I have a client that had a dog that was doing this, started when he was a pup fresh from the breeder. She wanted to spend less money so she bought a working line gsd, having no idea the difference. Now this pup should have never been sent to a pet home to begin with....bad breeder IMHO.. So I get a call from the lady after she goes to the vet with her puppy and trys to get advice from them, they of course send her to me. I go to her house and her cute little 10 week old puppy is posturing,growling, over the food bowl. So I show her what to do.. first we worked on sit stay, down, stay all with treats, and that worked fine, he was a very smart boy. then I began with holding his food bowl and luring him into a sit, he did fine, put the bowl on the ground and tried to lure him into a sit...at this point he goes after the food in the bowl, so I block it until he begins to figure out that he that isn't going to get him the food bowl, he is going to have to do something for it....and that is sit. he does and I put the bowl down in front of him. free get the food. after a few bites I go to pick up the bowl....of course he postures and growls over the bowl....I at that time try scruffing him and rolling him on his side....he comes at me full force...it was alot for a 10wk old pup....but he wasn't giving in. I had him pinned on his side and was asking him to settle,,,calm down and relax while being pinned on his side...it took him a while but as he relaxed I let up on the pressure. we did this over and over until he relized that he will have to let me take the food bowl while he was eating and the faster he sat calmly the faster he got his food back. Ok not a big deal, but she didn't do it. fast forward 3 months I am back at her house for the same reason....again we work on food aggression, after a couple hours he is again letting me take the food away and sitting, laying down and being a good boy...she was put on a schedual of training for this boy and was to come to obedience classes...of course she did it until she decided that he was perfect and then she stopped...guess what the behavior came back, big surprise. She let it go on for about a year. at first he would just growl and posture, then he would go after her and run her out of the room. by the time I was called back in to "fix the dog" agian this was her rutine. she would put the dog out back in the yard....make up his food, and place it on the floor. the kids had to go upstares or outside or school. she would shut all the doors to the kitchen, and open the back door for the dog to come in the house to eat, she would slip out the back door and walk around the house to the front yard and come in the front door. usually by then the dog was done eating and would be waiting for her....he of course started biting and she was going to put him to sleep because of this. The dog now weighted about 80lbs. This was a working bred dog who should have been placed in a working home. the breeder should have known this lady would not be able to handle this but sold her the dog anyway. I really do blame the breeder, but I also blame the lady for not keeping up with the dogs training. I had him here at my place for about 3 months worth of training and we ended up selling him to a great working home...he is a very nice dog now and loves his schutzhund training and he gets to go and bite the bad man once a week....and boy can you tell when he had to skip a week....breeders really need to be careful what the sell to who, and people need to stop getting these working bred dogs for pet home because they cost less. This woman hates the gsd now....she judges them all on this one dog, even though she sees myne all the time and sees that they are good dogs.

I do agree that this dog can be fixed, but will it happen?? mostlikly not, he will get more aggressive and will end up biting someone and will be put to sleep. I see it all the time. very sad.

I want to thank all of you for your insightful input. Update 1) Gsdfan, SGBH - He no longer goes under the beds and guards it. 2) Shortly after my original post (a couple of days ago), I thought about trying a scenario like Het describes to posts above. However, I decided that though he would platz and blibe in front of the food bowl until I said OK, when he went to eat his food he would surely growl/teeth, etc. and when I pulled him away from or claimed the bowl he would take a run at me. 3) What have I done? I removed the bowl from the equation. At meal time, I tell him to platz and blibe and look for any signs, if nothing I throw some kibble on the floor. If he eats those with no issue, I continue to feed him his food and add obedience between each handful. I have him heeling while eating handfuls of food, I stop walking he sits (like he should), I tell him platz, I give him some more food, etc. I have been able to stand over him while eating. 4) I agree with all of the posters that said this is completley a rank issue, and the NILIF exercises alone does not make a pack leader. 5) Back to my orginal question, if he shows any signs of aggression during meal time why does witholding his food not work? I do not understand how it is any different than witholding the ball or sleeve until the dog complies. Thanks in advance for the explanation.