warranties for hips - Page 3

Hi Blitzen, I like the options in the OFA Database - by combining different angles of seaching, it is a really good source of info - you can search by kennel name easily, pick out a dog you know the sire of, look at all the progeny of the sire [or dam] - With imports, you can compare the OFAs to the 'a' stamps or other European schemes for the same dog. The 'C' dog I mentioned was a Danish import owned by a friend, who did OFAs and she went OFA Good at 5.5 years old. The sire of my young male was 'B' in Belgium and is OFA Good - there are many many examples when you start to do reseach. I think people would do well to check facts and do reseach before buying a puppy - look at alot of pedigrees of related dogs, of similar blood line crosses, of the linebreedings etc. Many misconceptions and misunderstandings are based on skewed perceptions of too few facts!! An analogy I like is that when someone reads the first page of a book and the last page - they still have no clue as to what happened inbetween - and if they have some agenda, just make up their own versions!

Hi Kougar, I've found some of my own dogs by searching using only one part of the name, not just my kennel name. I too like the option of looking at the information behind the dogs. I accidentally discovered that one can also find the ratings on dogs that were certified prior to OFA's showing the rating in the number. If you do your search by clicking on the OFA rating you're looking for and then type in either part of the dog's name or the kennel name, the search will sort by that hip rating. This way one can find what ratings were issued to any certified dog as long as the kennel name is recorded correctly. Pretty interesting. I believe in reading the book from cover to cover and then deciding if it deserves the Pulitzer or the trash barrel ;-).

Jessica, Bob If you follow human athletes, many of them suffer from severe arthitic or other physical changes at very young ages because of the stress on their body. Few human athletes can still compete past their early 30s, hardly any compete at age 40. Why do you think they get such high $$s :o). And most of them stick to very strict diets that allow for best performance and also for best maintenance of all body parts. Plus treatments to a degree not even available to dogs. We also know that teenagers should not overdo it otherwise they will do damage to their growing bodies. Not too much physical stress and not too many protein shakes, not too many supplements, etc. There are very few athletes, human or animal, whose bodies can handle certain environmental stresses. The average to good dog does not need be a super dog. But that is what is being requested here. We should not mistake the odd exceptional specimen with what is normal. Dogs that an take the pounding for years on end without change, disease, lameness etc are not what is normal. Look at the sport of mushing for example. These people breed hundreds of dogs (top competitors usually have a couple hundred at a time or more, fellow I know used to have about 400 in his kennel at peak times, two puppy "crops" of about 60 pups a year) to get the odd one that can compete for many years, a dog that usually becomes the lead dog due to experience and physical superiority. The rest of the team is easier to replace, just a spoke in the wheel. Still, out of the hundreds they have and breed, only a few select are good enough to even become that spoke in the wheel. And if these spokes, because already near perfect (and these people only pay attention to performance, none whatsoever to appearance, size, colour, coat etc) are used for breeding then should selective breeding not re-produce that? Apparently not, or else the mushers would not need to keep such large numbers of dogs. That is the reality. That is what breeders and owners need to come to terms with. Perfect does not beget perfect. **** EK - depends on the age of the prelims. Also if you re x-rayed your female shortly after birth or close to a heat cycle, the x-rays may not have been accurate. Plus positioning could have been off. A less than desireable result should first question the quality of x-ray, maybe call for another. How many of her pups ended up dysplastic if you don't mind telling?

As one who has one dysplastic dog and did it by the books as she grew up, I still don't blame the breeder as the litter combination on paper should have been good. How do you know though until you do it? I could kick myself for not doing prelims. As a purchaser of pups, in my dream world, part of the sale contract (in the states) would require prelims at 4 months and replace or refund for any dog showing unrefutable evidence of dysplasia. I think I could be dispassionate and objective about a puppy I have only had for 8 weeks - plus there are restorative options for a young puppy that may give a better quality of life. At 2 years, I am too attached to a dog and the price I paid (at least for a working line dog) pales compared to the expenses I will encounter in the future. In my case, I did not ask for a new puppy becuase I wanted to hit the ground running and acquired a young adult -- OFA Good. [Kept the female; she is actually doing quite well but she is not allowed to do the work for which she was intended]

Hell why not 5 in all, I am still feeling the back lash of this litter. I have to agree with the enviroment problems, Example: who is to say that since these puppies came from good import lines (not knocking just stating the facts) they would of had fair hips but due to slick floor, over wieght and jumping in and out of trucks now end up as mild HD. Again I see the genetic part too. if it is receesive who or how can any one know? but to bred a male to different females and vs and wait and see? But by that time it is too late and now you are labeled as a "BAD BREEDER" and slammed on web boards not only here in the US but all over the world!!!!!! (personal gripe/ has happen to me sorry) So after reading and listing to ALL the great point of views I came up with this. Keep the puppy until age one, do the socializion (then you know the temperament), what the dog was feeed for the 1 yr., training, and up bringing. At 12 months do a pre-limb and sell the puppy if the hips look good. then they can start thier training and what nots. and let them deal iwith it. As stated above over seas "normally" don't warranty the hips, at least I am seeing it half way I know this sounds costly and not everyone can do it but I have been on the other side and that was EXPENSIVE!!!! and cost me my kennel rep. This way is much cheaper and less headache.

The other thing is that to continue to learn, learn, learn. Being a breeder is not the be all and end all in overall knowledge in what hips produce. How many dogs from any breeding are OFA'd (finals) from any breeder? Constant research, learning, talking to both OFA and Penn hips doctors. What do combinations of dogs produce and why? Waht have siblings of the parents, etc produced? How many of a litter, even those sold as family dogs, as OFA'd? I do not include prelims.....

Ski that is where I thought until every puppy from every litter must be OFA and TURNED in reguardless of the looks ( most people will not turn them in if they look bad) breeding or pet. We now require every puppy to be OFA that way I can see what my dogs are producing But then it goes back to the Question of Genetic VS Enviroment. I have learned some much since I had my first litter. And I am still learning. This is a great breed just has some major flaws.

EK, "I have learned some much since I had my first litter. And I am still learning." And you admit it :-) which is great. Even top trainers and competitors, breeders and show are constantly learning and do not downplay those that are just starting out. Everyone needs to keep learning, acknowledge the good and bad of what they have (and possibly produce) and strive for improvement in all.

I started out with the back yard breeders 150.00 dogs I learned all about Temperaments (good/Bad) about every problem that could pop up, and working drives. Now I pay 1600-2000.00 for my puppies. People say I am crazy for paying that much for a puppy. But You can buy a SUV or you can buy a Yugo it depends on what you are going to do with it. I personally love to train and compete and don't want any limits on what I can do. But if I was just looking for just a pet then the humane society. .

I bought a dog from a breeder that "guarantees" hips to 18 months of age, the age at which you can certify with OVC in Canada(Ontario Veterinary College). This breeder claims that hip displasia is 100% nutritional and provides puppy buyers with handouts which "explain and justify" this position. If you do not feed the brand of raw dogfood that the breeder manufactures and sells, then she claims that you will no doubt get hip displasia in your dog. This, of course, is an easy out for not honouring the so called "guarantee" if you have not invested in her dog food.