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by Ruger1 on 10 June 2010 - 03:06
TESSJ10,....never meant to insinuate that you said anything negative...you have been very fair in every way in all your postings with me.......thanks
I believe I spoke out of turn and about a subject that I obviously have no knowledge about...This thread is definitely out of my league.........I work very hard, spend a lot of time and money training our horses and would be very discourages, angry and frustrated if I felt that things were conducted unfairly....thats a real bumber..
I will leave this thread to those who understand the issue,,,,
I can't even get my male to "pfui"..."leave it".....whatever.....WHAT DO I KNOW...lol..lol..
Ruger1
I
by Olga Ashley on 10 June 2010 - 04:06
Ruger1; here is my advice STAY JUST THE WAY YOU ARE, show your dog and have fun with it...don't get sucked up into the politics/snickering and bickering of the showring; enjoy the time with your dog in the showring, learn from the critique of the judge (but always keep in mind that it is one person's critique....the next may be different) . LOL don't let it turn you into a ringside Velociraptor tapping your overgrown toenails on the ground when you disagree with placement of your dog or a dog you felt was undeserving (Like in the scene in Jurassic park )
A note about Julie from Mittelwest; she was one of the nicest people I met in the show word, I have handled several of her dogs in the past and felt that they were not only stunning but also had great characters and were a joy to handle. I have grandpups of Natasha/Albert now, several are freakishly red, would doubt any need to dye from those lines. Anyways, JMO and my experience....
Overall I think the showring should be FUN, a judges prospective on your animal, a different perspective and a placement in accordance to what the judge feels is right.....others may or may not agree, other judges may or may not agree, everybody has different types and preferences. I think as a breeder you make your own judgment on who you like as far as type, character, working ability and so on! A judges opinion on who should be sieger should not affect a breeders opinion on who to use as a stud. You breed to your own type.
by VonIsengard on 10 June 2010 - 04:06
" I think as a breeder you make your own judgment on who you like as far as type, character, working ability and so on! A judges opinion on who should be sieger should not affect a breeders opinion on who to use as a stud. You breed to your own type."
Very well said!
Very well said!
by Phil Behun on 10 June 2010 - 07:06
Sorry that I haven't answered earlier,,,,,,,kinda got wrapped up in THE BLACKHAWKS WINNING THE STANLEY CUP. I have received numerous PM's regarding financial support for the filing fee. I will check into getting the paperwork in order tomorrow (being that it is 0230 right now). Or, I should say later today. What I will do is give you my mailing address where checks can be sent. If you would like, I can post the names of contributors or I can keep it anonymous. I will return any monies received after the $200 plateau is reached and send a personal check to the USA office. Personally, I am absolutely fed up with the way the current administration has treated it's supporters and has used their respective offices for personal gain. More to follow, good night.
by Mittelwest on 10 June 2010 - 09:06
Hello to all,
I spent a long time writing a very long post for to put up here and accidentally hit the wrong button and cleared out my long post while I was trying to submit it. I will rewrite a shorter version of the same.
I normally stay far away from the gossip and hate that is spewed upon these webboards. I see people I know that post comments and say things about people on these boards that act totally different in person and I think it is just too easy for people to post lies and hateful, jealous things about one another on these webboards. 90% of the time, the postings are outright lies... the other 10% of the time they are some sort of a twisted truth meant to lead or mislead others into thinking a certain way, or to "rally up" some blind supporters who have no knowledge of what is happening other than what falsehoods they read on these webboards. I have been involved in dog sport for many many long years and I have never taken part on these chat boards before , during , nor after I became "a hot topic" to go after.
With that being said, I would like to clear up a couple of things that I feel that people simply do not know the truth regarding.
First of all, myself, my family and my team are very serious competitors and take our sportmanship and ethics in the sport very seriously and have always prided ourselves on respecting the sport at all levels and being advocates on helping as many fellow competitors as possible along the way. We are addiment about taking the time for others and helping with the training of their dogs, helping out with handlers, we have groomed competitors dogs for them many times over the years, because they just didn't know what to do, we share all that we know, all that we do, and all that we bring with us to both physically and mentally to competition. We always share our equipment, our water, our tents, our chairs, our grooming supplies.. we water ours and also other person's dogs in the ring.. I help competitors get ears on their dogs, help them learn the sport, giving hours and hours of my time emailing any and all that reach out for help and avice... spend hours on the phone with people helping them prepare dogs that are not even Mittelwest dogs... help with breeding advice, training , showing, etc.. I have always been this way as has my entire team and family. It has been very very painful and difficult for us who feel this way and live this way.. to read the negative comments and often times outright lies that are spewed toward myself, my dogs, my breeding program and our team as a whole. There are a couple of issues that I wanted to address
regarding a couple of things that have been read on this post recently. First I would like say that I know many people have listened to one lie that has been repeated a number of times on these postings.. that I was charged with and found guilty of coloring dogs or dying dogs coats. This is absolutely NOT TRUE. I was NEVER charged with coloring dogs... and I was also NEVER charged with dying dogs... The specific charge that was made was in reference to my using ONE product specifically called Black on Black Shampoo manufactured by the Chris Christensen company that makes a long line of show and grooming products. There was NEVER any charge by the organization of my dying any dogs NOR of my Coloring any dogs... this was NEVER a charge.. it was NEVER an issue... although the persons whom have been trying to hurt my reputation, definately wanted all of you who read these posts to think that I was coloring or dying dogs.. and they have repeatedly, specifically used the words coloring and dying to spark attention and outrage from people who read these boards and just simply do not know the truth.. and believe what they r
I spent a long time writing a very long post for to put up here and accidentally hit the wrong button and cleared out my long post while I was trying to submit it. I will rewrite a shorter version of the same.
I normally stay far away from the gossip and hate that is spewed upon these webboards. I see people I know that post comments and say things about people on these boards that act totally different in person and I think it is just too easy for people to post lies and hateful, jealous things about one another on these webboards. 90% of the time, the postings are outright lies... the other 10% of the time they are some sort of a twisted truth meant to lead or mislead others into thinking a certain way, or to "rally up" some blind supporters who have no knowledge of what is happening other than what falsehoods they read on these webboards. I have been involved in dog sport for many many long years and I have never taken part on these chat boards before , during , nor after I became "a hot topic" to go after.
With that being said, I would like to clear up a couple of things that I feel that people simply do not know the truth regarding.
First of all, myself, my family and my team are very serious competitors and take our sportmanship and ethics in the sport very seriously and have always prided ourselves on respecting the sport at all levels and being advocates on helping as many fellow competitors as possible along the way. We are addiment about taking the time for others and helping with the training of their dogs, helping out with handlers, we have groomed competitors dogs for them many times over the years, because they just didn't know what to do, we share all that we know, all that we do, and all that we bring with us to both physically and mentally to competition. We always share our equipment, our water, our tents, our chairs, our grooming supplies.. we water ours and also other person's dogs in the ring.. I help competitors get ears on their dogs, help them learn the sport, giving hours and hours of my time emailing any and all that reach out for help and avice... spend hours on the phone with people helping them prepare dogs that are not even Mittelwest dogs... help with breeding advice, training , showing, etc.. I have always been this way as has my entire team and family. It has been very very painful and difficult for us who feel this way and live this way.. to read the negative comments and often times outright lies that are spewed toward myself, my dogs, my breeding program and our team as a whole. There are a couple of issues that I wanted to address
regarding a couple of things that have been read on this post recently. First I would like say that I know many people have listened to one lie that has been repeated a number of times on these postings.. that I was charged with and found guilty of coloring dogs or dying dogs coats. This is absolutely NOT TRUE. I was NEVER charged with coloring dogs... and I was also NEVER charged with dying dogs... The specific charge that was made was in reference to my using ONE product specifically called Black on Black Shampoo manufactured by the Chris Christensen company that makes a long line of show and grooming products. There was NEVER any charge by the organization of my dying any dogs NOR of my Coloring any dogs... this was NEVER a charge.. it was NEVER an issue... although the persons whom have been trying to hurt my reputation, definately wanted all of you who read these posts to think that I was coloring or dying dogs.. and they have repeatedly, specifically used the words coloring and dying to spark attention and outrage from people who read these boards and just simply do not know the truth.. and believe what they r
by Mittelwest on 10 June 2010 - 10:06
believe what they read. The charge that was made toward myself and my co owner was for using the product Black on Black Shampoo on one dog... and one dog only. Also very very important to note.. is that we admitted to and never denied using this product..we believe that this product was okay to use and we stood firm in our belief that there was nothing wrong with using this product. I contacted the organization prior to using anything on my dog with the damaged coat
and asked them if their was a list of products that were okay to use or not okay to use .. I was told that they do not keep or create any list of approved or not approved products (while other show organizations do). They said that it is left up to the individuals with their dogs to be responsible and look into and research anything that they use on their dogs. So then, we contacted the manufacturer of the product and discussed the product with them at length. The Chris Christensen company assured us that their product was meant for exactly what we were wanting to use it for. .. they assured us that their product was NOT a dye (it is also advertised strongly as NOT being a dye).. they informed us that their product does not and cannot change or alter a dog's coat from it's original color. .. they said their product can only take the black parts on a dog that already has black hairs and repair the fading or damage to the black in the black area. Our dog's black had become reddish brown and was not a black as it had been before. FURTHERMORE, they also informed us .. that their product was already an APPROVED product with the AKC and also the UKC for showing dogs. The AKC does not allow any products to be sold, used or advertised with them that are not "approved" for showing purposes. same with the UKC. This product had been and was already an approved product for showing dogs with our Country's only recognized breed regtistry. So, we used the product with all good intention .. we absolutely believed that there was no reason why we couldn't use it. You can buy it yourself and and use it on a number of dogs and see for yourself that it does what it says it does and no more... you can see for yourself that it does not have the ability to change your dog's coat color... it does not have the capability to add or change a dog's coat color.
and asked them if their was a list of products that were okay to use or not okay to use .. I was told that they do not keep or create any list of approved or not approved products (while other show organizations do). They said that it is left up to the individuals with their dogs to be responsible and look into and research anything that they use on their dogs. So then, we contacted the manufacturer of the product and discussed the product with them at length. The Chris Christensen company assured us that their product was meant for exactly what we were wanting to use it for. .. they assured us that their product was NOT a dye (it is also advertised strongly as NOT being a dye).. they informed us that their product does not and cannot change or alter a dog's coat from it's original color. .. they said their product can only take the black parts on a dog that already has black hairs and repair the fading or damage to the black in the black area. Our dog's black had become reddish brown and was not a black as it had been before. FURTHERMORE, they also informed us .. that their product was already an APPROVED product with the AKC and also the UKC for showing dogs. The AKC does not allow any products to be sold, used or advertised with them that are not "approved" for showing purposes. same with the UKC. This product had been and was already an approved product for showing dogs with our Country's only recognized breed regtistry. So, we used the product with all good intention .. we absolutely believed that there was no reason why we couldn't use it. You can buy it yourself and and use it on a number of dogs and see for yourself that it does what it says it does and no more... you can see for yourself that it does not have the ability to change your dog's coat color... it does not have the capability to add or change a dog's coat color.
by Mittelwest on 10 June 2010 - 10:06
In any event, we never hid the fact that we used the shampoo,.. as we never thought there was any reason why we couldn't use it... we thought it was a good shampoo and recommended it to others as well. There have been a number of people that have tred to take hits at me and Mittelwest since my husband died of cancer. I have been made aware, after all of the dust settled .. which persons were responsible for wanting me to take a hit and wanted me to get into trouble with the organization in an effort to bring me down and in hopes that we would not be able to compete.. etc. it is really quite nasty out there where people try to win and do better by going after other people instead of just breeding better and training their dogs better... there was a huge rush to judgement against me.. and there were sharks on a serious hunt during this entire process. While we didn't think we were doing anything wrong by using the Black on Black Shampoo... as we knew it was a grooming shampoo already approved for showing dogs... we did not know..that the organization could simply just say that they were going to choose to "not approve" the product we used. Boom. That was it.
They never had to say why thery weren't appoving it... no telling us not to use it again, instead, we get a suspension and fines for having used a product that we thought was fine to use. Furthermore, we did what we were told in regard to looking into and researching the product before we used it and were convinced by doing so, that it was fine.
Be absolutely sure.. that it is understood that this situation .. with this black on black shampoo was the only charge against meand that it was NOT for dying dogs or coloring dogs... I would NEVER color a dog or dye a dog to make it appear to be
different than it's natural color. There are many reasons why I would never do this. One reason is that it is stupid, unethical and illegal. The most important reason for me personally, is that I LOVE THE BREED.. and I LOVE deep red and black shepherds... every dog I work with... is intended to hopefully be an important part of my breeding program in the future. I would never want to spend thousands of dollars to show and title a dog that had color and pigment so poor that it would need to be colored or dyed... as when the showing is done and the schutzhund is done... this dog would be representing my breeding program and affecting all of my years of breeding and I would not want to breed this dog and have it producing poor color or pigment. I hope that this makes clear the lies and half truths that have been spewed about my coloring or dying dogs. ..never happened... never would happen.. never charged with doing so.. never found guilty of doing so...I am very proud of my breeding program, I have worked diligently for many years at obtaining
They never had to say why thery weren't appoving it... no telling us not to use it again, instead, we get a suspension and fines for having used a product that we thought was fine to use. Furthermore, we did what we were told in regard to looking into and researching the product before we used it and were convinced by doing so, that it was fine.
Be absolutely sure.. that it is understood that this situation .. with this black on black shampoo was the only charge against meand that it was NOT for dying dogs or coloring dogs... I would NEVER color a dog or dye a dog to make it appear to be
different than it's natural color. There are many reasons why I would never do this. One reason is that it is stupid, unethical and illegal. The most important reason for me personally, is that I LOVE THE BREED.. and I LOVE deep red and black shepherds... every dog I work with... is intended to hopefully be an important part of my breeding program in the future. I would never want to spend thousands of dollars to show and title a dog that had color and pigment so poor that it would need to be colored or dyed... as when the showing is done and the schutzhund is done... this dog would be representing my breeding program and affecting all of my years of breeding and I would not want to breed this dog and have it producing poor color or pigment. I hope that this makes clear the lies and half truths that have been spewed about my coloring or dying dogs. ..never happened... never would happen.. never charged with doing so.. never found guilty of doing so...I am very proud of my breeding program, I have worked diligently for many years at obtaining
by Mittelwest on 10 June 2010 - 10:06
the working ability, character, anatomy, color and pigment and overall "look" of my mittelwest dogs... I LOVE black and red shepherds.. and I work to maintain my Mittelwest "type"... this can only be obtained for the future with solid breeding dogs that have the mittelwest "type".
To this day, myself, my co owner as well as the Chris Christensen company have never been told just "why" the organization decided to "not approve" their dog show shampoo... there are hundreds of show shampoos on the market and this one... in the "show world" is pretty popular.. and is already approved specifically for dogs that are going to be shown in the show ring by our Country's breed registry... and still... they just said no.. it would have been better if they would have this listed somewhere so that we can know ahead of time.. we never would have used it if we didn't feel as though it was okay to use.
I will respond to the comments regarding VA1 Titan a little bit later...
Julie Marinez
Mittelwest Shepherds
To this day, myself, my co owner as well as the Chris Christensen company have never been told just "why" the organization decided to "not approve" their dog show shampoo... there are hundreds of show shampoos on the market and this one... in the "show world" is pretty popular.. and is already approved specifically for dogs that are going to be shown in the show ring by our Country's breed registry... and still... they just said no.. it would have been better if they would have this listed somewhere so that we can know ahead of time.. we never would have used it if we didn't feel as though it was okay to use.
I will respond to the comments regarding VA1 Titan a little bit later...
Julie Marinez
Mittelwest Shepherds
by vomgrobersee on 10 June 2010 - 11:06
I am stepping out on a limb here, especially since I have never really been big into posting on here but i do read what others think.
I THINK THIS THREAD HAS GOTTEN COMPLETELY OUT OF HAND, and we have lost site on what is the real issue. As posted previously by (robin, etc...) when issues arise concerning this conduct including officers of the organization, who exactly do you file charges with? If an officer of an organization is himself/herself the person in question everyone yells file charges. Why? and to Whom?
This thread has become a breeder bashing thread. Which it should not have become.
If I was a new person coming into the dog world, I would be highly discouraged. Isn't the point of all of this to get people as excited about their dogs as most of us already are. Many of us are friends outside the dog world and forums. We show together, train together and have fun together.
I personally am a professional groomer, and I can honestly attest that I have never colored or dyed a GSD dog for ANYONE!
Getting back to the real ISSUE at hand, myself and friends witnessed things (behavior) at this SS that we were completely surprised by and it had nothing to do with coloring dogs, breaking tails or any of the other allegedly said bullshit! Those are topics that we refuse to engage in response to.
Originally this thread was reintroduced as a congratulatory thread, by many of us to each other. So let me and my friends reintroduce that moment which was lost,
CONGRATULATIONS TO THE SIEGERS ALL THE WAY TO THE LAST PUPPY SHOWN!
Sincerely,
Lisa
I THINK THIS THREAD HAS GOTTEN COMPLETELY OUT OF HAND, and we have lost site on what is the real issue. As posted previously by (robin, etc...) when issues arise concerning this conduct including officers of the organization, who exactly do you file charges with? If an officer of an organization is himself/herself the person in question everyone yells file charges. Why? and to Whom?
This thread has become a breeder bashing thread. Which it should not have become.
If I was a new person coming into the dog world, I would be highly discouraged. Isn't the point of all of this to get people as excited about their dogs as most of us already are. Many of us are friends outside the dog world and forums. We show together, train together and have fun together.
I personally am a professional groomer, and I can honestly attest that I have never colored or dyed a GSD dog for ANYONE!
Getting back to the real ISSUE at hand, myself and friends witnessed things (behavior) at this SS that we were completely surprised by and it had nothing to do with coloring dogs, breaking tails or any of the other allegedly said bullshit! Those are topics that we refuse to engage in response to.
Originally this thread was reintroduced as a congratulatory thread, by many of us to each other. So let me and my friends reintroduce that moment which was lost,
CONGRATULATIONS TO THE SIEGERS ALL THE WAY TO THE LAST PUPPY SHOWN!
Sincerely,
Lisa
by TessJ10 on 10 June 2010 - 12:06
"This thread has become a breeder bashing thread. Which it should not have become."
No. It has not. It has become a cheating bashing thread. Cheating whether by the judge or the exhbitors.
No. It has not. It has become a cheating bashing thread. Cheating whether by the judge or the exhbitors.
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