Schutzhund and only schutzhund? - Page 14

LOL Slam
Lot's of running in circles, I agree!

Pick your sport of choice, and no matter
what, someone will be able to poke holes
in it and tell you why it sucks. It just so
happens it's usually someone that has done
nothing but typed on message boards.

Anyone that has spent time at the end
of a tracking line, or teaching a send out,
a transport etc will tell you that while there
may be holes in the 'sport', it's still a pretty
solid starting point.

Sure beats keeping Ol' Wonder Dog
in the back yard and claiming how
great/tough/for real etc he is
or skipping rocks!

vomeisenhaus

I dont think experience to do with my taste in a working dog at all.

I hope to be working him in mondio but we only have one  little training facillity here , with very few members so Im not sure that I can get the experince in RING I need because the danish is not very experienced in this sport as they are to schh so if I cannot train him in mondio I will title him in PH .

I hope to title my female this year to a PH title and retrain her from a schh 1 to PH

I have titled my male dog in PH

I do have a small child so I dont have much time for training as before I got kids so we will se what time can bring



slamdunc

I agree we have been through this subject many times and its the same and samr we are writing

slamdunc

I have never writtien that the 20 km bike ride is hard just what the requirements are in this country to bred gsd

johann77

Im talking about certified rescue dogs nothing to do with police dogs

they have to pass some tests to show that they can be proffessionel working dogs and could be used wordwide when there are hurricanes that have destroyed buildings and earthquakes  so they have to prove they can work in other climates than the cold danish weather.

they have to prove that they can keep drive when searching for people in building search.


well Johann

I know Vidoq but one in many does not mean a thing sorry.

I would never want to buy a dog here with only schh titles in their pedigree I would not want to buy these dogs , then I could just get a poodle istead almost the same dog in a different coat

and certainly not many of the lines used here  I only like fero,aly,nick lines mostly and these are not the prefered lines here and they only have schh titles ,no thanks I think I'll pass or get a mal instead they surely almost always have more drive than gsd

I would rather get a czech lines instead of all wl

just some of the few schh I like

my favorite  just
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgM0M1tZVdQ 


Love this one


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95GNM7GGKVQ



 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juO8Z3ZSB-8&feature=related


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWj5hhnbpIg

KNPV titled
 

http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs_details.php?id=104794&new_lan_en 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-LiWzg-7NU


If we look at the pedigree of many of these dogs some of the good schh lines goes again and again
like Nick,Aly, Trold,Yoschy, Fero,Gildo ,asko von der lutter

Johann77

here are the statitics over the paticipant in SAR here and where the gsd and why they dont do well as a working dog



RUIN Search-55 participants, 18 passed
1) Malinois
2) Malinois
3) Malinois
4) Border collie
5) Malinois
6) Jack Russel Terrier
7) Tervueren
8) Malinios
9) American Staffordshire Terrier
10) Golden retriever
11) Labrador retriever
12) Golden retriever
13) Malinois
14) German Shepherd
15) Golden retriever
16) Labrador retriever
17) German Shepherd
18) German Shepherd

Blind search 55 participants, 9 passed
1) Malinois
2) Border collie
3) Malinois
4) Short-haired Dutch Shepherd Dog
5) Border collie
6) Bernese
7) Golden retriever
8) Malinois
9) German Shepherd


Here in tracking the gsd best traits where they are number one.
 
SPORSØG-11 attendees, 3 passed
1) German Shepherd
2) Riesenschnautzer
3) Airedale Terrier



The distribution of registered breeds was also following with last year's WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS:

1) German Shepherd = 32 dogs
2) Malinois = 23 dogs
3) Golden retriever = 16 dogs
4) Mixtures = 15 dogs
5) Border collie = 11 dogs
6) Labrador retriever = 10 dogs
7) Beauceron = 4 dogs
8) Tervueren = 3 dogs
8) Flatcoated retriever = 3 dogs
8) Berne sennen = 3 dogs
8) Dutch Shepherd Dog = 3 dogs
12) Rottweiler = 2 dogs
12) AmStaff = 2 dogs
12) Riesenschnautzer = 2 dogs
15) Airedale Terrier = 1 dog
15) Mellemschnautzer = 1 dog
15) Doberman Pinscher = 1 dog
15) Australian Cattle dog = 1 dog
15) Czechoslovak Wolfhound = 1 dog
15) German short-haired hen dog = 1 dog
15) Australian kelpie = 1 dog
Parson Jack Russell Terrier = 15) 1 dog

And so 2 dogs I can't find the breed on-the one shortened PON, and the other ASH.

So it is actually something which very many breeds can be with, but of course only a few races at the top .... 


And here are the statements the chairman of the SAR dogs have stated why the gsd does not have the working abiliies that is required



As I see it:

Ruin Search:
* Agile, they must be played across all the junk and up by almost vertical concrete surfaces. In some cases the climbing of ladders to get into buildings, etc.

* Drive, it takes place July in France/Croatia/Austria/Switzerland and the dog must search for up to 40 minutes in a row. The dog must find up to 6 decoys without being rewarded by or between the decoys.

* the power to stay focused and in drive, they must go on many unpleasant things that is noisy, often sliding down of concrete surfaces and so must still press ahead while passing strangers around the ruin area and there is a part there is noise and if applicable. also fire in the area.

* mental and drive ,dog fall down of concrete surfaces, it must have the drive to even understand how it comes out of the area again to search further-in some cases, this can happen even if the handler don't see the dog. So it must do it without the help and without stressing, as it begins to bark and hundeføreren takes it as an error marking.


Blind search:
* Agile, the last two have been held respectively in Switzerland and Austria-with round ring in the Alps. That is to say the dog comes out to run on highly demanding and steep areas.

* Drives, it takes place July in France/Croatia/Austria/Switzerland and the dog must search for up to 30 minutes in a row. The dog must find up to 6 decoys without being rewarded by or between the decoys.

Chairman idea why the gsd cannot pass as a working SAR DOG her statement is



The German Shepherd dogs I have seen are primarily of working lines. My immediate bid on why so many of them can't contentment to the Wm are:

1) they are too heavy and not physically strong enough. In some cases, they simply don't come around no matter how hard they are fighting for the case.

2) Sliding down and settles a bit, or are experiencing an uncomfortable mattress, also stresses the too easy.

3) they are to dependent on the distance of the handler, some find it very difficult to work without being able to see the handler.

4) They do not have drive enough to be able to work up to 40 minutes in the heat that is in the countries mentioned in July. So they start out fine, but cannot keep drive in the course of the test.


-It is so my bids on why the german shepherds not doing better ... now I know not how German Shepherd-breeders have the with rescue dog, but in any case at malinois, there is certainly no problems WHATSOEVER mht. to buy a good puppy from a good breeder, if only they say it must be used to rescue dog: o).

Of course I get another puppy in a litter than the f example Martine would have ... but what I see now is not as if the breeder will not bother to sell to me, but more a sensible coverage mht. getting the right puppy sent out to the appropriate program; o).

So without being able to say what I believe, certainly not to the results is due to the breeders of utility German Shepherd will not bother to sell to rescue dog. In many countries used rescue dogs up to 4-5 times a month to search for missing persons, and in many countries is the rescue hundeførerne Professional on an equal footing with e.g. Police Service hundeførere (e.g. firefighters in France and other countries) ... In some countries it is the military's professional dog masters who educates rescue dogs (e.g. the one organization in Switzerland) and other places such as. Russia is the police who educates rescue dogs. 






 


 

Vomeisenhaus I dont know what we Will aclomplish with the pup but hé we have already won the title Best working dog at a competition with Both other much older pups and aldult dogs With a Strange handler to see If the dog could focus ón working obedience and stay driven instead of looking after his handler So Im proud

Best working dog at a competition??? What kind of competition was this? Sounds like something you would see at petsmart.

eisenhaus

It was in the in police canine traning facility

nothing for real mostly a fun competition but still enough to give the dogs points for their obedience

Myret, yes as we told you, SCH-lines could be find in many sports and jobs, especially with ferro in the pedigree;) There aren´t much difference in the dogs you posted compared to gator and many others, but of course a few dogs have a couragtest and attacks that are hard to match, regardless of the breed or sport, if you take the GSDs that do french ring or KNPV for the  moment probably very few of them could match zenders protectionwork if they did SCH instead. Also, you don´t see everything in a trial, especially not things that are important for a servicedog, endurance, good nerves and ability to concentrate in difficult tracks and environment, courage and so on. So if the dogs should do more than sports you can´t only look to what sporttitles the dog has, and say this dog is better than another, it´s depends on the purpose of the work he should do.

Czech GSDs seems not a good choice for you, they have SCH-like sports or servicework in their pedigree;) you probably find more dogs wih extreme preydrive in some of the other lines. If you want a GSD that are multipurpose and can do SAR, look for lines tested for this then, like the danish PH-dogs or swedish lines, there you find dogs which are tested for this and not only SCH-dogs. Rottweiler or other breeds are also doing SAR so GSDs with the right attributes could do this, if they can´t do SAR in hotterclimat or ringsport as good as some 25 kg malinois so who cares, you don´t need such a dog anyway in denmark, do you? As I said, I want a dog that are not only suited for a specific task.