How to avoid business dealings with NUTS!?! - Page 4

The first thing is to make sure you have identified the person. Get their actual name, home address and run a credit check on them. Do not do any business anonymously over the web with someone whom you haven't identified who they actually are. If you have a breeding business, this is completely legal and there are several companies that will provide this service at a reasonable cost and will get you a background on the person's credit and payment history. Also, they will run a criminal background check on the person for an extra fee and give you any public records on their divorces, domestic abuse charges, etc. What youi will find is that folks who are snippy or hard to deal with and won't put down a reasonable downpayment, probably have a lot to hide. Just like those abusive, sadistic folks who post on this web site and make comments degrading others, thinking that they are so sharp and superior mentally, but actually care nothing about the GSD breed. These folks typically excellent manipulators but have no college degrees, are of low IQ and are not only ignorant but have very shady business backgrounds, they must hide from everyone. These folks often have histories of domestic abuse in relationships and long term histories of deals gone bad, always blaming the other person. Folks that think they are so smart at others expense, educated or not, usually are very disfunctional in their own lives and tend to try and manipulate one sided deals out of any legitimate kennel. Stay clear of these users as they will always want to take you and will blame you for anything that goes wrong, even when their fault as it usually is.

If she sold you a puppy for $1500, then sold the same puppy you returned for $2500, then she made $4000 on the original puppy.

Shelly, I hope that person is practicing Copy/Paste for the upcoming "hearing" and I hope she wins, for those posting so publically viciously in an attempt to ruin a business, the poster better hope they are the pope themselves, As this is a "dream" type lawsuit in the making. copy/paste copy/paste Gather, gather, gather, Keep posting Nuts, you just dig that hold a little deeper.

Preston makes some excellent points pertaining to initial vetting of breeders' customers to try to weed out the "nuts." But after seeing so many threads here about deals between two seeming "non-nut" parties that went astray, as a lawyer there are some additional observations I'd like to make: 1. Every breeder or seller of dogs should use written contracts in every transaction. Period. 2. The written contract should spell out to the fullest extent possible the rights and responsibilities of the parties. 3. This in turn involves the parties thinking about the deal dispassionately. Even though the sale of a living breathing animal is the purpose of the deal and we'd like to think that this in turn somehow imbues the deal with a loftier purpose than say the sale of potatoes, the bottom line is that Seller X is selling a commercial good to Buyer Y. 4. Once emotional thinking is removed from the analysis of the planned transaction, then it is possible for the parties to determine or at least get some sense of the following: a. the condition, quality and credentials of what is being offered for sale and what worth the market typically assigns to that condition and quality - in other words, what is a fair price for what is being offered b. the buyer's anticipated uses and/or goals for the dog going forward c. what aspects of the dog are or should be warrantable, and what aspects are not d. what the parties' responsibilities are if something should happen to the dog before delivery e. what happens when the buyer does not conform with contract requirements f. what happens when the buyer is not happy with the dog g. what happens when the buyer does not pay for the dog h. in breeding contracts, what steps must be performed prior to mating, how often the mating is to take place, who is responsible for boarding costs, and any future rights of the female's owner should the breeding not take h. what court has jurisdiction over a deal if the deal goes bad. These are just some of the kinds of issues whose terms should be spelled out in any contract for sale. And how the negotiation of contract terms proceeds should give both buyer and seller a further idea of the ethics, competence, trustworthiness, financial means, etc. of the other party. Reasonable people should be able to reasonably agree to appropriate allocations of risk and responsibility. If either a buyer or seller does not seem reasonable, then it is safer to not deal with that person.

Excellent post p59teitel. Though I am not a lawyer, I have contracts which specify and clarify exactly the issues you mention for pup or dog sales, and are similar even for boarding, or training. It has been extremely rare that I have had issues. One time someone signed a contract for SchH training. The contract was binding and said NO money would be refunded, unless I could not fulfill the terms of the contract. The dogs' owner then withdrew the dog from training after 3 weeks. I actually refunded 25% of the training price paid in advance, though I was not bound to do so. The thanks I received was the man lying about this on his web site. But what he does not know is that I have a vets' statement to prove the dog was health and no teeth were broken (as he claimed I had broken a tooth) and I also had a signed contract which stated he would NOT be refunded money. Reasonable people should be able to reasonably agree.....as you say. Unfortunately, there are people who are not reasonable, not educated about what they are doing, or in some cases, have no common sense or ethics. They include both buyers and sellers. Thanks for the legal primer.

p59teitel, I hope you set up a web site and sell legal consulting for breeers and contracts. A good contract protects the seller as well as the buyer. It can be a win/win situation with less chance for misunderstandings. Your input is invaluable.