NEWBIE - Page 3

We were not given this type of advice when we purchased our females,  Had we, I would have done it in a minute,  We have 2 Females and a single male we purchased and they were 2, 2, and 3 yrs. old.  Too old to start training for SchH titles in our area,  Training is limited and extensive travel is involved.  Had I been told about all of this the first time I inquired about purchasing a breeding female I would have instead sought out a breeder to Apprentice under.  However we have learned we have made changes, and we will continue to do so as we do learn,  I did have the BASICS (other than titles) in place though.  

The MAJOR thing I see BAD right now with your idea is this...  YOU describe your dog as a wonderful pet with a shotty pedigree,  Do You HONESTLY feel this dog is breed worthy ??   If his pedigree is this shotty should that litter have been bred in the first place ?   You say your dog is nice,  But is your dog the "lucky" pup of the litter ?   How about the siblings how did they turn out,  or do you know ?   When we purchased our dogs,  I  had  at the very least purchased dogs with very good pedigrees for my own goals,  I don't get that same feeling from your description of your dogs pedigree. 

Please Consider what has been suggested, and please at least attempt to Honestly answer the questions above,  don't post them here just do that in your head.   If you don't feel that your quite ready,  Consider finding a Mentor to help prepare you for what could be a remarkable life changing expeirience for you,  Because if your not ready and try it anyway,  the results could be Devistating and Tragic.   I personally would rather see you succeed to your fullest potential,  I do not beleive that you can honestly say that the dog you describe with the shotty pedigree will get you there.   

Please know I wish you the best,  I hope you will find some use from what I have written.  And my biggest hope of all is that in your "Discovery" you will choose to use this to turn your upcoming experience into a Posative Life Changing experience for your entire family that will also Posatively impact the lives of your future buyers.

<sub>Before you consider breeding your dog please remember some important facts:

If you are truly breeding to improve the breed, it will not be a cheap endeavor. Quality animals who come from tested and genetically guaranteed parents will cost $$$$. If you are going to be a real breeder and not some backyard dog pimp, you will invest in the health of the dogs - genetic testing, regular vet visits, prenatal care for the bitch, again $$$$. If you do not want to get a reputation as a joke in the GSD community, you will have to invest time in working with your dogs, at least getting some OB titles on them, but working dog enthusiast prefer to see SCH1 at the least.

You say your dog comes from crap lines, why perpetuate more "crap" just to borrow your phase. I'm sure your boy is charming and just a great companion, but if he is not breeding stock, why bred him? This is the typical mentality of a backyard breeder. Why not post good pics of your dog so at the very least some people who actually are reputable breeders on this or any other GSD forum can give you a critique and tell you if your boy is even worth considering as a breeding prospect?

And finally, if your concern truly is simply to provide good quality GSD's to people in your community, why not just do a little research, create a list of good breeders from around the country and have it ready for distribution when someone asks? If your motives truly are not financial you should not have any problem support the good breeding practices of others.

Any breeder with a conscious also always has the sad statistics of the number of dogs in shelters and who are destroyed annually in the back of his of her mind.

"Twenty-five percent of all the animals entering shelters are purebreds. That is approximately 450,000 purebred dogs in our shelters EVERY YEAR. According to AKC 2003 registrations, German Shepherds are the 4th most popular breed in the US. In 2003, 43,950 or 4.8% of all AKC registered dogs were German Shepherds. Many of the 450,000 dogs in our US shelters every year are purebred GERMAN SHEPHERDS...and thousands do not make it out of the shelter alive!" http://www.brightstargsd.org/

So ask yourself again, do you really want to venture into breeding? If the answer is yes, then I strongly suggest you explore the following links:

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeding/breeder3.html
http://www.crookedcreekcairnterriers.com/?pageid=56068
http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html

Regards.</sub>

Alright,

Thankyou for all of the advice, good or bad.  The person that mentioned finding a "mentor" locally...I would love that, that is what i'm looking for, however as of now i have not been able to find one.  I will try to get some pics of Duke and send them to a few of you that are more willing to give honest opinions without the harsh put downs.  And No i'm not looking to breed ASAP.  Duke is only 9 months old and i do not plan to breed him (if i do) until he is atleast 2.  Thanks to all criticizim, pos or neg.

Patch,

I agree with you on all your points.  I feel just as strongly.  You and I simply understood different things from his post.  My assumption is that he doesn't have the knowledge base nor the training base to get started now.  If he did he wouldn't be asking for $1000 dogs.

The fact that he is asking shows that he is attempting to become more educated on the subject.  The replies to his post have been consistent on the level of effort and research required to get started.

People like Newbie have litters (wouldn't classify as breeding) all the time.  I see the dogs for sale in the paper every week.  Rarely, will a person like Newbie actually post and ask for advice.  On the rare occasion they do, we can either discourage them from breeding at all......or we can point them in a direction that is beneficial for the breed and hopefully will result in less dogs in shelters.

Lots of good advice here from people that care about not diluting the breed.  We are also believers of not breeding until the dogs are proven.  Also, a 2 or 3-year old dog is not too old to start Schutzhund with, I'm not sure why that thinking is there.  Unless that an excuse not to get titles.  We know many that have started dogs that age and have titled them.

You can post a picture of your dog with his pedigree.

EMT,    Let us know how we can help you to find that "Mentor".

If you would like to email anyone who has posted in a way you feel comfortable to email them,  click on the screen name (Blue letters) above that persons post,  It will take you to an email addy if they have provided one,  or you can just ask for they're email.  Most will post it for you.

EMTTGT, there are plenty of folks out there selling mediocre pups. By your own admission about the male, "his pedigree pretty much sucks,"  you are starting with a less than adequate stud dog. An outstanding trainer and breeder in the US will tell you, " You can't breed gold to crap and get silver."  Please reconsider your plans. By the way Start a dog in schutzhund at any age, the training will only improve them. Most of us do extensive travel to train our dogs. If you don't have the time and knowledge to do it right, PLEASE don't do it. Everyone can make excuses, very few can produce quality pups.

Some of the responses you read may have seemed a bit harsh but I think it's important you understand that it's nothing personal; just too many people that get into the breed and get under this misconception that it's an easy way to make some extra cash when they have not fully understood what they are producing.  Then what happens is that puppy buyers who are equally inexperienced come to buy a pup that in a few months winds up not being what they expected and now either will come back to you the breeder or in a shelter.  I think the harsh responses you received were people very passionate about the breed who are frustrated with people saturating the market with low quality puppies.  You won't always get the answer you were hoping for on this board but if you keep an open mind then you will eventually be able to sort through the variations of advice to better understand everyone's particular point and position.

I have a two year bitch with exc. bloodlines. Out of two "V" rated parents. She is smart, beautiful, kind, energetic, and intelligent. Everything you could ask for in a dog AND good pedigree. I came to the conclusion a couple months ago that I didn't have any business breeding. I don't have either the knowledge or the financial resources to handle major problems or to take back pups. Sometimes people decide they just want to throw away a pup like an old diaper. As the person who arranged to bring that little life into the world his well being is TOTALLY YOUR RESPONSIBLITY.  What if they don't all sell? Are you willing to keep and care for them all? What if there is a problem in whelping? Are you capable of handling an emergency? What about the vet bills for a Cesaerian (assuming you get to one in time to save all those lives)? And I'm willing to wager that will cost a hell of a lot more than $1000 bucks.

I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm not trying to be nice either.  It's cruel and inhumane to make and sell pups without responsible knowledge and financial resources. I know a man with two bloodhounds, probably, crap pedigrees judging from the place he got them. Decided to breed, bitch is pregnant. But guess what? Before the pups are even born, all of the above occured to him and he had to shell out over two grand for an emergency for the male. Bottom line? He's decided he doesn't want to do this anymore and is desparately trying to find ANYONE who will take pups AND parents. I wasn't nice to him either.

If you think it's "negative" getting all the information from this board  before you breed, think how "negative" things will be AFTER you breed. Usually good advice is the hardest to follow.

Think about it first,

Dawg

Please disregard the mention of my site above. I am very selective with puppy homes and I would not sell a puppy to a home with an interest like this. It would go against all my beliefs as a responsible breeder.

Thank you very much.

                                                 Nate Harves

                                                 www.sportwaffenk9.com