X-ray opinions please - Page 2

Molly, you know as well as anyone that hips, like most medical conditions, are about both CURRENT condition and FUTURE change.  This dog is only marginally ok now, but no one can really say how he will change over the years.  In people, it has not been shown that hips decay faster when we are more or less active, heavy or light (except for the obese), if we run or swim, or even the content of our diet.  There ARE a few dietary things that can be done -- certain supplements (glucosamine/chondroitin, other anti-inflammatories), certain exercise restrictions (long distance running cannot be good, as we know that marathoners do harm their joints long term -- although not at a high rate).

I am personally averse to starving dogs for the folkloric idea that skinny means longer lived -- that's a choice we can ethically make for ourselves (70% normal intake leads to a longer life but at a lower quality), but certainly if this dog is very active he should not become fat.  In my opinion, as well, agility is not very demanding -- except Jumpers -- and neither is AKC obedience (26" jumps are very easy for gsds).

I honestly think the only thing anyone can do is let the dog live well and happily and hope for the best.  I do personally think some swimming is necessary for the health of ALL dogs, and surely this dog could profit from a life near a lake.

quite honestly, molly, i would trust your opinion on xrays more than i would many vets.  (especially if they position them wrong in the first place.  how can they have a trustworthy opinion?) bob always seems to be right on the mark as well.  is this dog one you bred and sold or just posting for a friend? one thing i really don't like to see is long necks on the femur, especially when they are thickening and appear deformed.  the femur necks here appear to be normal and the heads appear to be at least 50% seated.  personally, i wouldn't have a problem with training/working this dog.  i would be surprised if he ever suffers a problem.  his hips could possibly worsen with age and still not cause any crippling.  as with all dogs, if there is a question about the hips, keeping them fit/muscular and lean goes a long way in holding them together.  (not saying anything you don't already know.)
by the way, prager, i love the pic and xrays of your dog above.  looks like a kick-ass dog to me.  :)
pjp

pjp, I agree with you.  I wanted other opinions so the owner didn't just take mine and wonder about it, not being a vet and all.  I told her the positioning was crooked AND twisted - not the worst positioning I've seen but bad enough to not be able to say "the left hip is BAD" or "the left hip looks worse than it would if the positioning was correct".  The only thing about the positiioning that IMO is correct is the legs themselves - straight with knees turned in.  But the pelvis is rotated and also turned, so really hard to say "this is how it is or it would be better...". 

The vet is one that the owner trusts and considers a friend.  The vet supposedly took many shots and was not happy with the positioning, but said "couldn't get it better".  Vet told owner that the left hip was not good enough to pass OFA, and owner should not pursue agility/jumping with this dog as there was already wear on the left femur head.

I told the owner I disagreed with the vet.  I see no wear or malformation of the femur heads.  I think the sockets are plenty deep, and I think the femurs are seated "well enough" - could be better yes, but certainly not terrible.  I think these hips would pass OFA, with a Fair.  Possibly a Good if the positioning was better.  Not if these x-rays were sent in (positioning is too crooked)  - owner is not sending them in.  Dog is long-coated and neutered anyway (was neutered at the same time the x-rays were taken) so not a breeding prospect anyway.

I told the owner IMO this dog will never have problems with his hips, with normal activity including jumping and agility.  Of course owner knows this includes keeping the dog lean and building up jumping activities over time - at 15 months the dog has not yet been jumped at all and is very lean and in good condition.  I don't think these hips will ever give this dog problems.

So that's my opinion on these x-rays.

molly

For the sake of comparison, I often refer to a couple of x-rays of my own dogs (grandfather and grandson). Please  understand that I salvaged these hard copies after shots with optimal positioning were obtained to send to the OFA.

(1) OFA "excellent"



(2) OFA "good"--could easily have been rated "excellent"--IMO

As for the x-rays presented by Molly, I would say that the the dog may be able to lead a normal, active life. The OFA would probably rate him as borderline/mild HD or, at best, OFA "fair".

People are continually thinking and posting erroneously that the the femoral head should be absolutely round with no flattening. The flattened area is absolutely anatomically normal and may vary radiographically according to the age of the dog. This region is known as the "foramen capitis femoris" to which the "ligamentum capitis femoris" (ligament of the femoral head) attaches to the acetabular (socket) wall.

I asked about these hips in another thread (that I hijacked too ) and didn't get any replies.  Well, I have the results now and will tell you after I get your experienced opinions.  This is a 3 year old female and they were submitted to the OFA.  Positioning is okay and I don't know if they would look better had the vet turned the knees in... you should have seen the other 5 pictures they took (horrible positioning).  Thanks.

Positioning is almost perfect in these x-rays, except the knees should be turned in more, and yes the hips would look a little tighter if they had been - but certainly very good positioning, nearly perfectly straight in the pelvis - and hips look pretty good too - could be seated a little deeper in the sockets - necks may be a little thicker than desireable - so I'm guessing OFA Fair - or Good if the OFA board were in a good mood the day they saw these films.

molly

I will ask the Doctor I work with tomorrow about the xrays just for fun and see what she says about them.

sachsenwolf, is your vet using digital xrays?

Yes, they just went digital... isn't it nice and clear!  Thanks for your reply Molly... will wait for a couple more.

They look perfectly fine for obedience/agility. Hell, my UD dog is OFA moderate dysplastic and I have trained her on obstacle courses far more strenuous than an AKC agility course. I keep her lean and on vitamins, and we swim a lot.