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by Sunsilver on 25 May 2010 - 03:05
Don't call me, I'll call you....
by VomMarischal on 25 May 2010 - 03:05
by yoshy on 25 May 2010 - 04:05
None of my dogs have these traits. this is why i dont like show dogs of any breed (with exceptions). look at the difference between field bred labs and show labs. or any other breed.
2) Temperment: Tina has done her best to breed a family-friendly dog that can be trusted with the smallest child. (And we all know this was something that was lacking in the American GSD at the time.)
Thats great but every GSD in my home is 100% with kids or babys and they are all active working dogs. i can provide pictured of babies feeding them food at festivals, kids playing with dogs after protection demo's etc..... I wasnt around during the years you are talking about so i want debate that point however we have that now and im sure there were companionable dogs that could be found during that era as well.
3) The genetic database and tracking of littermate information, to eliminate genetic problems such as dysplasia and EPI. Tina has 40 year's worth of records recorded on a computer database. How many breeders can claim that?
I know several gsd breeders whom have this. Its a great thing and very admirable. however genetics is still a game of percentages and has she been sucessful in her venture to rid the combo breed of all genetic faults/heritable diseases etc????
Also if the combo breed catches on and gains popularity what do you think will happen. you think every breeder will keep 100% to the original standard? this is why it is peril for a consumer to do there research and procure dogs from a reliable source regardless of breed.
4) A support system. The ISSR people I've met and gotten to know are wonderful people. When my GSD developed prostate problems, I had someone offer to help pay for the very expensive tests he needed. I've lost count of the number of forum members who have been helped in one way or another by other forum members. The ISSR donated a Shiloh pup to a young man in the Netherlands who had cancer. Members donated money to cat over the cost of eye surgery for a Shiloh service dog that had entropion of the eyelid. And when my puppy's mom was whelping her litter, Tina made herself available by phone to help out! I only became a Shiloh owner last September, yet for three years before that, I was accepted on the forums, and even attended several ISSR events with my two GSDs. No one has EVER said a bad word to me about my dogs, or criticized me for not having a Shiloh!
This is great you guys have a social club of dog owners. thats awesome that you can recieve help in times of need and have happy times together. However this doesnt help in the efforts of getting your dogs recognized as a purebred when simply looking at the dog.
....unlike another forum, where I was told my female GSD was a P.O.S.!
well this is wrong where ever you go. but thats the world.
So again- what progession does this dog bring to the table that cant be found in the already listed purebreeds.
Im just not sold. I mean you have to bring a little more than simply negative traits found in particular lines of
another breed. Im not trying to be an a** just simply looking to be convinced that this dog is worthy of becoming its
own recognized breed.just trying to give you and your dogs an honest shot.before discarding the topic. where does
it fit in and what makes it better than what we already have?
for some reason you link on the record sheets wouldnt open for me. not sure why.
by Sunsilver on 25 May 2010 - 13:05
1) Yes, the working lines still have 'straight' backs. Okay, NORMAL looking backs. They are supposed to have a slight curve, according to the breed standard! There are also 'normal' looking American showlines, but you won't see them anywhere near the breed ring! Some of us a) don't want to do schutzhund, and b) still want to be able to take part in conformation shows. You can't do that with a GSD unless it looks like an overangulated freak!
2) That may be your experience, but as people in this forum have said over and over again, a GSD is a WORKING dog, and NEEDS a JOB! This tends to make them too high-energy for your average modern family, where both parents work. Some people prefer the appearance and protective instincts of the Shiloh to a dog like a lab or golden, which would probably lick a burglar to death! The Shiloh provides the protection without always having to have an intense work or play session every day. Mind you, temperments vary, and some are quite high-energy, and even the more laid back ones still need daily exercise.
3) Well good for them! The GSD world needs more breeders like this.
As to what will happen when the Shiloh is recognized, it's hard to say. But judges DO have the breed standard to go by, and as long as Tina and Lisa Barber are around, they will be complaining VERY loudly if the standard is not enforced. She also has a large number of licensed breeders and a breed club which will be on the AKC's case if the standard is not followed.
And the 'support system' is far more than a 'social club'! A lot of them are ISSR licensed breeders, and they will be the ones carrying the breed forward into the future. It's very important that we stand together and support one another.
Another trait I forgot to mention is the intelligence. Shilohs are excellent problem-solvers. Many of them quickly learn to open doors and gates. I know of several people who have padlocks on the dog yard fence. It's not to keep people out, but to keep the dogs IN!
I could tell dozens of anecdotes, but if you read the link about Mali, you'll get an idea of how smart they can be. I'll just add another short one about a Shiloh that was training for SAR.
The handlers had finished a training session, and the instructor told them to put their dogs away, so he could offer some criticism and comments. The Shiloh's handler put her dog in a down-stay in the back of her SUV, then went to join the other handlers, who were gathered in a circle nearby.
Shortly, a water bowl, then a water bottle came flying out of the SUV. The instructor paused in his commentary, and looked at the dog, and shook his head in surprise. "I think your dog is trying to tell you he's thirsty!" he told the handler.
I hear story after story from the forum members like this. Galen, who would let the family's Shiloh pup out of his cage, until the family gave up trying to keep him confined, Loki, who goes to work with his handicapped owner, and even alerts her to others in the office who are not well, Shep, who saved Lisa Barber's life when she was an infant, by ripping the covers off Tina's bed, and even ripping her nightgown in an effort to alert her that Lisa had stopped breathing.
by Sunsilver on 25 May 2010 - 14:05
Okay, maybe you know GSDs that have this sort of intelligence. But I don't hear similar stories on this forum. Tina has selected for this intelligence by introducing blood from the Littlest Hobo lines, and from other dogs that showed very high intelligence and trainablility (Rin Tin Tin, Chico, etc.) Some of you will say that's just a marketing ploy. Okay, she's a commercial breeder, and she has to sell her dogs, that's true.
But where are YOUR stories about your dog's intelligence? I don't hear the same stuff here that I do on the Shiloh forums. I know GSDs are very quick learners ( I have two of them, rememember?) so I'm certainly not saying they are stupid. I just don't hear stories about the same remarkable problem-solving ability that the Shilohs seem to have.
by zdog on 25 May 2010 - 14:05
maybe the dog seems so smart cause they handler isn't? after training, especially a longer tracking and find session, my dogs always get water, not empty bowls and they're latched to a crate so they can't get picked up, tossed around or spilled. Plus if my dog was in a down stay, they'd stay there howl or bark, not get up and find stuff to play with.
But here's the best idea of them all. Since it's a different breed according to the followers, and it has it's own board, why not go there and talk about them. Rather than come over here everytime the money runs low and pimp your abomination and try comparing it to a long standing breed with a history and reputation, and try fluffing us like we're some porn star to get us interested again in something that never has resembled a GSD in any way shape or form. I'm pretty sure there's a woman breeding "rin tin tin" lines too, and i'm pretty sure her dogs don't do shit anymore either. Dogs from 50 years ago, don't have much influence on the dog of today in case you haven't noticed. Just go away if all you want to do is talk about this crap.
by Sunsilver on 25 May 2010 - 14:05
I am not here to 'pimp' the breed. It needs no pimping. Most Shiloh litters are spoken for before they're even born!
BUT I will continue to post here to answer questions, and to correct misconceptions about the breed being nothing but a poorly bred, longhaired German Shepherd!
by Tina M. Barber on 25 May 2010 - 14:05
That is exactly WHY people choose a Shiloh! They are BIG, CHILD SAFE -- GENTLE & HAVE GREAT HIPS!! http://www.shilohshepherds.info/whatIsAShilohShepherd.htm
by Tina M. Barber on 25 May 2010 - 14:05
sarabella, you seem to be stuck on "service" work -- that is NOT what these dogs are about! We already have service/working GSD's -- Malanois, etc. etc... the Shiloh was bred to be an amazing (highly intelligent) family companion! After all, how many "normal" families have sheep in their yards, or live in such horrible areas that they need a full time attack dog? What about the children in their neighborhoods?? I think most folks would prefer to have a brinks system then the possible liability created by an "attack" dog!!
As for the "outcrossing" -- I added the GSD/Malamute outcross in '86 -- while Don added the Sarplaninac back in the LATE 70'S -- how many generations have been produced since?? I highly doubt that you could call them a "designer" breed! Unless you have NO clue about genetics??
As for price -- most of my pups sell for $1,500 -- that's a LOT less then what I have seen GSD's selling for -- especially Import pups!! I have no clue about now, but back in the "old days" Germany never sent anything *good* here -- so most of the Imports shipped in back then were just "their" rejects -- yet they were selling here for unbelievable amounts -- has that trend improved any??
by wrestleman on 25 May 2010 - 15:05
I juts think its all hillarious how people come to her aide and believe her BS
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