Which Sport Tests... - Page 7

Duke,
                   Careful about saying it is impossible to register a NVBK dog
with LOSH. NVBK build this breed, and if you throw out the NVBK dogs
their are no Malinois left to register.

               We build this breed on ROCK and ROLL!!

http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/562/GVitou-des-Deux-Pottois

 Duke, why do you see more playdogs in KNPV, aren´t the goal in KNPV to title the dog and then sell it to the police/army and not to compete with the dogs like the other dogsports? If the competition-part lacks in KNPV it sounds reasonable that there are less need or want for a more sporty dog, or do the police also want more sporty dogs in holland nowadays?

Isn´t most dogsports on the high level more or less the same, a mediocre dog in one program will be the same in another and a real good one will do well in all, maybe with some small differences due to what the particular sport put emphasis on like jumps or grips.Mediocre dogs seems to be found in whatever sport you do and I guess the success in sports is also much influenced of the trainer and the numerous time of conditioning and training that is behind a top level sportdog and therefore no sport is a test of the dogs genetic quality only I suppose. 

I´ve seen highlevel mondidogs do pretty unimpressive SCH-couragtests, on the other hand I guess the reverse could also be true, as I said a dog that really brings it would probably do good in many programs, but high scores at competitions isn´t always done by the most impressive dogs what I´ve seen.

johan , first of all , KNPV dogs are sold worldwide , and yes  police worldwide want more and more social playful dogs , there are USA policedepartments who will not buy a dog if  it comes out of the crate and bite and pulls the leash

for several dogs in KNPV but also other sports , the dogs are not guarding  , but just waiting for the ball to drop , and if the choice has to be made between the decoy or the ball , they will go for the ball , this is common in sports , but something I see more lately also in KNPV

I must say that there are also lots of real good dogs in KNPV , so I dont want to say they are all like that

Yep Diane, provacative. I am referring to the following statement you made that I have asked you to back up. In fact I am asking you for the 3rd time, so I guess you are also being purposely obtuse. YOU are the one who made the statement, I'm merely asking you to put your money where your mouth is.

"you see videos of shepherds and mals coming off becuase the decoy stepped on their toe, or twisted their ankle: these can be examples of high flying, hard biting "bring it" dogs, but animals which can't "take it". "

So where are these videos of all these high flying hard biting Malis and GSDs that come off because their toes were stepped on?

Sorry kido, I'm a busy person and have been away from the computer. I've got 3 dogs in training for weight pull, several for schutzhund and AKC tracking titles, two for schutzhund, 2 for article title, one starting AKC UD training, plus the other lower level AKC/ASCA obedience pups.  Have a broken foot and possibly broke my arm yesterday, have to see tomorrow at the drs.  So, not always on the forum. I can't believe that someone who seems to spend so much time on the dog boards has not seen vids of good trial dogs coming off? Well, I'll take time away from the kids to find one and post it, though I'm more than sure you'll have all kinds of reasons why it is "provocative" !  LOL!

To the others who actually discussed the topic, thanks for a good read. Hans, really liked your stuff. I do think *some* breeders test pups. I know of a few.  I'll try and find a nice little video of some of my 16 week old pups doing something I felt quite proud of, though obviously it was more "prey" than "defense" toughness owing to the breed.  ANywho, I'll take a look around and see what I can find. Since my house/computer burned down, and I do not have the old stuff reloaded yet, its tough.

Here is one vid I found of some dogs coming off at what looks to be a national or international level.  If ANY of these dogs sustained a MAJOR injury, I would be interested in seeing the medical report (not just heresay).  Some of the dogs get injured to the point of holding up their legs and such, but go on. Commendable.

Can injury occur during the bitework phase? Certainly, but NOTHING like could happen in a "real" fight with some guy hopped up on meth with a crowbar or something.  Obviously, while fighting, a dog should be "in drive" enough to take injury until done.  A decoy jamming a dog's neck, or tangling up in their legs, or even say, cracking a rib falling on them,  while, unfortunate, should not be a reason for a dog to "take his marbles and go home" (in my humble opinion). 

This is what I was talking about: a dog who cries and "goes home" due to injury during the fight. That's what I call "bring it but not taking it".  Especially in light of the injuries some dogs take, and continue to hang in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn_AnOiYi_c

That's the video I referenced in my ORIGINAL post.  It's from the 2007 FMBB World Championship and was held in France that year.  2 dogs suffered broken legs and 1 broke it's sternum.  If you need to see medical documentation to believe the injuries sustained were more that a stepped on toe, that's your issue.  Obviously you know nothing about Malinois.

Obviously.  And just as obviously you know nothing about pit bulls.

I've seen Italian Greyhounds that wouldn't "break" a leg in that situation.

OK. Well, there is no way  that ANY vid I post would make my point in your eyes, my dear.  So I shan't waste my time (with you).  

The question of desire to fight with conviction once in that fight is an interesting one.  I think serious work and sport dog people understand this, and it can be an interesting debate with the right folks. 
 

Oh bullshit Diane. Show me where I have made ANY statement regarding pitbulls  (other than to say the ones I have known have been nice dogs).  You see, unlike you, I don't talk about shit I don't know.  As far as the video, like I said, the one video you could come up with is the one I mentioned in my original post..  YOU made the statement, I ASKED you for something to back up your statement AND you couldn't do it, so you get  pissy.  That's your problem, not mine.

I was refering to any "statement" about pit bulls.  Your statement was "i don't understand malinois" implying, I supposed, that they are "tough" and I don't appreciate that fact. Or something.  My response is that you don't seem to understand that "tough" is relative. Having worked with the American pit bull breed for 25 years, and having seen some of the horrific injuries these dogs take in stride (sadly) I guess colors my opinions.

No problem! Not pissy. Just a little tired of people with no real comments on a subject jumping in to bash the OP. 

I tell you what Diane, I'll just pretend to let you win, maybe that will shut you up.