Would You ?..... - Page 5

Well, maybe Brix88 and LRRK2 could give Ruger1 some extra advice in training Ruger? Especially since both of you have experience with the breed and have actually seen the dog/behavior in question? This would be true dogmanship, IMO.

If this trainer is really that good then it was very bad judgement on her part to let a 6mo old pup off leash around other dogs. Ruger1, you have a lot to learn about training and behavior of dogs. But if you are riding a horse in a competition then you know that it takes a clear mind to do the exercises and the help must be just right, not to lax and not to firm.

Translate this to the dog, be clear about what you want to achieve, and be clear in your communication. A correction has to match the intensity of the distraction or behavior. A behaviorist is just that, someone that points out, interprets the body language and the why a certain behavior occured in an animal. He should be able to tell you why Ruger is acting aggressive and teach you the first signs of him tensing up for you to intervene. And thats where obedience comes in, before a situation escalates, and for that you need a trainer.

I for one say you should stay in class and finish it. You need to bring consistency into your training. You have at least 2 experienced dog handlers there that sure wouldnt waste their time to an average trainer. Dont be afraid asking questions. Whines and squeals can be very wrongly interpreted and often sounds much worse than it is. It is a survival instinct of pups. At around 5 to 6 months old my pup would scream on top of his lungs if another dog stepped on his foot. It spooked the bejeebees out of me as I thought everytime he got seriously hurt. Remember also that you dont have to apply all the training methods used, but I am sure, you and Ruger can take something out of this class.

For people agression with my one male... the trainer took my dog while i was going out of sight and walked up to many different people feeding hot dogs to him. First a couple persons, then more every week. He learnt that people were OK. I am not a social butterfly and the dog picked up on me being uncomfortable around people. For dog agression with my female I worked with a trainer that did controlled sozialization classes. Dogs were muzzled and on leash, but allowed to mingle with each other. Advanced dogs were playing freely. We corrected snarling and other confrontation, and rewarded good behavior or turning away from a too social dog. Over a years time my girl "got it" and I learnt a ton about body language and what to make out of it.

I'm confused...can someone please explain to me why I am reading schutzhund and Golden Retriever in the same paragraph?

 Ruger1:  You absolutely have a right to express your opinion in a country where we have the blessing of free speech.  Thank goodness for that!  But the internet is a powerful place and I think some reminders may be in order:  I think I was not clear regarding my point on "anonymity".  Let me try again.  You were willing to say very negative things about this trainer using an international venue, I believe assuming nobody out there would know who you were talking about, but were not willing to express your concerns regarding what you thought were inappropriate training methods to her directly.  You went on and on about how horrible this experience was.  My point is that as soon as I read your post about the Golden, I knew I was in the same class and knew exactly who this trainer was.  I am certain that was not your intention to publicly identify her but now that has happened for at least a couple of us and I wonder how many more people out there know exactly about whom you are referring???  I think this reflects the power of the internet and the volume of "dog people" that read these kinds of threads.  I believe this is a good reminder to all of us.  

Given the above, I hope you and other readers understand my desire to point out that others who were present during the classes you refer to do NOT share your perceptions of the events you have so passionately described.  One other group member, whom I had never met before and who obviously was also fairly new to the class, turned to me after the Golden "incident" and commented that the trainer was like the "dog whisperer"!  I'm pretty sure that was a complement.  I have seen trainers who "string-em-up"; this is not one of them.  I have been to trainers who are nice people but have no real insight about training dogs; this trainer appears to have great insight, is quite nice to all of us and gives each one of us extra time as we need it.  I have been to two other trainers in my life who truly seem to understand how dogs think and were at the top of their sports.  Even though I have to drive a substantial distance to get to what is now a new trainer for me, I can tell already that it is worth it because she falls into the class of the great trainers.  And I can say that not just based on my experience with her in class, but also based on seeing several of the dogs and handlers she has helped train perform in competition. This trainer is compassionate and when she knew I had some admittedly rather neurotic health concerns about my dog, she checked in with me regularly during the class to be sure he was okay.  She did not have to do that but is genuinely concerned about the well-being of all of our dogs.  This trainer has NEVER asked me to do anything with my dog that I was not completely agreeable to and combines a balance of positive reinforcement and correction at appropriate times.  I know that some people do not believe in giving any corrections, but I personally believe that this is confusing for the dog.  If you fall on the side of the former, then it is best that you seek a trainer who works only with positive reinforcement.  I don't think there is anything wrong with that if it permits you to change your dog's behavior.  And please don't think that my dogs are all perfect!  I have never had to go through a people aggressive dog but have had a dog aggressive dog and know how much work and firm expectations it takes to get a dog to the point where they are under control.  

We share the love of a very powerful breed.  I wish you the best of luck in getting control of your dog.  You obviously love him very much.  I do hope you think about what Brix88 said about worrying about Prince's feelings, though.  Dogs don't think like people ..

 LRRK2....Your Quote..".You went on and on about how horrible this experience was. My point is that as soon as I read your post about the Golden, I knew I was in the same class and knew exactly who this trainer was." I see this as support that my description was in fact, accurate......

   LRRK2....your Quote  ...     "  I hope you and other readers understand my desire to point out that others who were present during the classes you refer to do NOT share your perceptions of the events you have so passionately described"..... I think it fair to note that this was a small group of about 5-6 people in total..and it makes no difference to me how many people where there and what they thought of it.....It does not change my opinion ....

                 *** I am not questioning how this trainer has trained your dog, or Brix88's dog...or any strong aggressive dog. The issue is a 6 month old Golden puppy......Done....


                                                           ...I will try to refrain from making other comments to support my opinion....THE VIDEO SPEAKS FOR ITS' SELF.......should it become necessary to defend myself against accusations of dishonesty or misrepresentation in the handling of the pup..I have no problem showing the video to a fair and reputable professional trainer...


                                                                                                             Ruger1



                 

Ruger what gives you the right to flash around video of someone else's dog?

If it were your own dog fine but if I owned a dog and someone video taped without my permission or knowledge I'd be pissed as hell if they started to show it around and use it as 'evidence' against my trainer.

                       FHTracker...Are you reading the posts.???My daughter video taped the training of her pet.....at an obedience class......She did not care what anyone else was doing with their dog or what the trainer was doing. It could not be helped that others were video taped in the process, as we are  working together in a group. It  was not our intent to video the correction training of the Golden, it just happened that way....The idea that this was done in secrete or undercover is ridiculous............I do not want to show it around and I have not showed it around to anyone except my husband, my parents, and my brother. ...As far as using it as evidence against the trainer that is really silly.....Do you think that is why she was there taping our lesson.....?????...

                                                                                                  Ruger1

R1,

Clinton Aderson was is a technician, Buck Brannaman a fundamentalist.

I greatly needed both to do training on Nicky.

Buck comes from Ray Hunt the master of communication between man
and beast.

Clinton comes from Gorden McKinley who wants Clinton to brake 15
wild Australian Brumbies before lunch. But Gorden shows him how to
do it.

Clinton tells people he gets in his clinics, that there is aways a little old
lady saying how can you do that to my baby? But  his reply is I am not going
to let a 1400lb horse shove me around.

My Nicky responded will to both ideologies, but she will not take me being to hard ass with her
she will shut down, and is very stubborn. I find a happy middle between Buck and Clinton.
She does not need a lot of correction once I get her focused. She was bred, and loves to work.

The problem I think is...... there is not a Ray Hunt out there to balance the training scale for dogs.
The communication between man and beast.

Ruger...
you don't own an explanation to anyone, its your dog, your $, your time..spend it the way you want it....I don't agree with some things you said but it does not make me right, so don't let people ruffle you up...this is the most un-composed i seen your post with bold print and underlines...unless you enjoy the drama which i don't think you do...
you don't have to justify your decision to anyone...start a new post with something else and don't come back to this one...being a nurse is not a calm relaxing job, so why add stress on top of that.. :)

Ruger,

You're the one who is making the video tape an issue, alluding too it on this board, promising to show it to another trainer if people continue to call your opinion on what happened into question.

You can video tape your dog being trained and if you had issue with a correction put on YOUR dog you would be within your rights to show it to another trainer for advice.  But the correction wasn't of your dog, was it?  If the owner of the Golden has no problem with what was done to their dog then you have NO RIGHT to be flashing around video of someone else's dog and making hay out of it.

.