Question to Working Line Breeders - Page 5

BabyEagle,
if he can drive that tractor I want him! Please send him down to MD, we have 20 acres to mow! These useless GSDs never learned how to be helpful around here! I started with showlines but could not get any results. When I tried the workinglines since everybody said they really do work - bu so far nothing!

@Powerhaus Vickie

Don't feel too bad, as I took Sam's bait "hook, line, and sinker" as well!

"WTF!", says me!

Oh well, anything for a laugh, right?

I Been Punked!  Totally!!! (Laughing)

SteveO

She's a lot nicer to Sam than she is to me ;-)

Now, I feel that my puppies are better off in companion homes where they are unconditionally loved and do not fall out of grace to be given away or pawned off. In short, I take a great pet home anyday over a show or sport home.

Truer words were never spoken!

I'll throw in,as I think this is a VERY interesting thread. Please remember that I have a different breed with different issues.

First, I don't breed for the public. I feel that if you breed "for the public" you are a commercial breeder (nice word for it).  I happen to feel that breeders should breed for their OWN USE and then place what they don't use.  I can't see just breeding two dogs together with no plans to keep any of the pups. Just too commerical for me. There are just too many dogs produced for the market.

I have my own breeding program, and I don't sell to the public. I will place a dog (no charge) with friends or sportsfriends if they deserve one ; ).  I also think a "breeder", when starting out, needs to understand that they won't really know "what they are producing" if they don't keep some pups back and work with them.

Having said that, I DO breed for "extreme".  But here is where extreme is different in my breed than the GSD. It has nothing to do with aggression issues. It has to do with determination to task and grip/retrieve along with physical toughness. So "extreme" dogs of my breeding can go into ACTIVE pet homes no problem.

First litter, now 12 years old: 1 SchH III, 1 agility titled, 2 culled for temperament, the 8 I kept got weight pull titles
Second litter, now 3.5 years old: 1 culled, 1 Narcotics Detection dog with state police, 1 "B" title and ready for SchH I, 1 I kept has SchH II, the other 1 I kept has weight pull title, TR1, and *ASCA* CD (with two HIT!)
Third Litter, now 3 years old: 2 culled, 1 in pet home that "was" going to do weight pull, 1 very active in agility, lots of titles. 
Fourth Litter, now  2 years old, 2 culled, 1 in active pet home that *was* going to work, 1 titled in obedience, 1 retained by me and getting ready for several titles
Fifth Litter now 1.5 years: 2 pups retained by me, one died,  one in training for weight pull
Sixth Litter now 11 months old: 1 pup in pet home that *was* going to work, three retained by me, 1 culled, 2 in training for weight pull and schutzhund

One thing I have learned and learned well.  It doesn't matter how much people promise they will work a pup - the ONLY guarantee that someone will do dogsport is if they ARE ALREADY DOING IT when you give them the pup.  But, my pet homes  have been great homes, so not a huge loss as far as the dogs are concerned. 

Note: I k now some people get upset at the idea of culling, but I feel it is part of a serious breeding program.  My intent is not to produce animals to sell. My intent is to produce the very best specimens of the breed I can. Some fall short inphysical soundness and some in mental soundness. I don't pass these pups off on others.     

"Now, I feel that my puppies are better off in companion homes where they are unconditionally loved and do not fall out of grace to be given away or pawned off."

Oh good point. Most of us training working lines don't love our dogs at all. And most of us who breed the occasional working lines litter don't see any point in improving the breed, so who cares whether we ever find out if our breeding plan is working or not. Pet homes are just fine and are actually pretty cool, sort of like REALLY early retirement.
  I insisted that all my puppies went to working homes (whatever the job was), even the runt. OK, it was kind of hard finding the right people, but I pulled it off. All ten are in training...the seven I placed and the three I kept. Of course, I didn't threaten the buyers with Great Bodily Harm if they don't title, but I wish I had thought of it....

So: 
3 (my three) starting in PSA, plus one more
1 in a sheriff's dept
3 in Sch homes
1 going into therapy work (the runt)
1 going to start MR

And every one of those homes lets the dogs in the house to be part of the family. Also, every one of the puppies came with an unconditional money-back guarantee, whether the dog is unsatisfactory or the people lose their jobs or whatever. I don't care.
 

I notice a lot of people talk about "in a such and such home".  But are these homes where the dog is ACTUALLY titled?  To me there is a difference when you are taking stock, as the OP is speaking of.  I guess I'm kinda leery... if the dog is over 3 years old and doesn't have a title, I would want to know why.  (shrugs)

Yeah, all we can do is our best on that one. It's impossible to predict why a dog wouldn't title, such as injury to the handler, bankruptcy, etc etc. Out of my last litter, 5 puppies, three are in SchH and two, who were conformationally faulty, are in "pet" homes (both on ranches). Also, two of my current litter are in homes where past puppies are living, so I got a pretty good idea of what their owners would do with them.

Nocurs,
If you're referring to my comment "public breeding", it goes like this: I had an oops litter a year ago, with three pups, and I kept all three.  Therefore, my litters the year before that were open to the public, or "public litters" (of which I have two 2yr olds out of).  And, unless you freely give your remaining pups away, by your definition would make us both "commercial breeders", unless you happen to keep all of your pups.

by eichenluft on 10 July 2010 - 19:07 eichenluft

Posts: 2725
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 06:19 pm
I agree with Powerhaus - I have a boarding/training kennel, and I HATE LABS too! They are obnoxious, untrained, spoiled, fat, loud (nuisance barkers), destructive, dirty, messy with water, they shed more than any other breed - and did I mention obnoxious? I would much rather have an entire kennel full of Pitbulls and Rotts and Poodles, rather than one Lab. Ok, off my soapbox, too.

As a workingline breeder I too used to spend a lot of time, energy and effort trying to get my puppies into "serious working homes". Now I care much more about the homes - and in general it's the "pet companion" homes that are best for the dog. That is where they will live out their entire lives even if they end up not being perfect for working - their owners love them and appreciate them and take great care of them. I love getting pictures of my dogs sitting on the couch with the family, going on vacation with the family, playing with the children. "Serious" working homes are not always like that.

So I breed my dogs to be exactly what I myself value in my own dogs. Dogs that have plenty of drive, temperament and nerve to work - even for serious competitors. But no "extremes" in drive, temperament or nerve - I don't want to own, and so I don't try to breed dogs that cant do BOTH - both a family companion, AND a top working dog. Yes, the same dog can do both. So my ideal home is one with someone who has serious plans for the dog - whether that plan is Schh, SAR, competitive obedience, agility, or service animal - who plans on the dog being also a part of the family and live in the house - or just a dog for a very active person/family, one that wants an active dog to accompany the active family
     Now this is funny. as soon as a dog has NO MORE VALUE as a breeding bitch, THEY ARE DUMPED some where. oh, that's right, re-homed for a lovely life on the couch some where.
    molly, the ONLY thing you value in any dog is the $$$$$$ you can make. No money-out the door with you RIGHT!

kitkat, you are a moron.