Saint Bernards and Schutzhund - Page 3

Wow no wonder people dont want to get involved in this sport. Honesty is the best policy when it comes to time and money of the person who is training the dog, but hell if THEY think they can do it, then why not try. If nothing else Im sure they will learn some things along the way.

Ive come across some very aggressive saints. People think they are just big lovey mushy dogs and they arent.  And they certainly are no push over. I would guess however that a helper may be hard to come by. I couldnt find one for a Neo I had because of his size and strength.

I say to her if she thinks she can then go for it. Its not how fast you get to the finish line but the trip you had in getting there.

Please do tell where you live. You couldn't find a helper because of your dog's "size and strength"? C'mon. Tell the whole story. I have never heard of any helper turning down their services because a dog was too big or strong. I've heard of helpers turning someone down because the dog was a fear bitter, or because the dog didn't have the drive and the helper didn't want to scare the shit out of it to bite, or the handler was just a schmuck so the helper made up some story to float their ego. No way. That is priceless. And I would tell someone with a Neo the same as a St Bernard. The deck is stacked against you. To use your analogy, I can enter a race with my 79 pinto and as long as I finish, I won, right? Well racing is about speed and the driver's ability. So now you want to stick somebody that has never driven into a sub-par car and tell them it's about the journey? Obviously you are not versed in the sport. I see people leave shattered all the time because Rover isn't cut out for the sport. I watch them work their asses off for a failure, disqualification, or hopefully a piss poor passing score. Is that a fun journey? I never said it can't be done, but why would you want to dig a hole with a spoon?

She is correct Don... There are not a lot of helpers here, at least closeby and the few we do have will not take on a dog the size of a Neapolitan.

The only question I have, is this person strong enough to hold him/her back in protection work??? LOL

I would need a 2nd handler or a post.



I grew up with a neighbor that did protection work with a Saint, I have no idea how far they got but I know he did it. That dog seemed so aggressive when I was little, he was probably bigger than me at 16!

Vom ruiz, you've got to be shitting me! That is a crazy excuse. Where is here, Oz? And are the munchkins the helpers?

I know I could not hold even a really big GSD lol... I was even there one day when Bhaugh had her faced laughed in by a helper.
Stacy

That's crazy talk. Too big and strong.

There is a girl we train with who has a Corso.... 1 yr and probably 125 lbs.... She needs a person behind her to help. I would not be able to hold a 150 lb dog back in protection! Hell no! Not by myself! Especially when they realize the spin and lunge gets them closer.... I would loose a shoulder socket..... LOL

Rugers,
My FIFTY pound year old bitch recently has been trying the spin and lunge and nearly rips my shoulder out.. But then again I am a bit of a munchkin here in the land of Oz... LOL
Good One Don.
And I'm not shitting you when I heard the helper laugh at her. If he gave her a reason I missed it since I had to go get my own dog out to train.
I just know she asked and was in fact turned down.

I've personally known people who have non-standard breeds trained in Sch. I have a friend with a black Lab with nice, full grips, and an aquaintence who put a Sch1 on her Great Dane. I used to do Sch with my Jack Russell. Another friend of mine has an Australian Shepherd that is trained as a PPD.

With the Dane, the biggest problem was getting him to put any pressure behind the bite. He had a full grip, but would only hold on tight enough that the helper couldn't get away. He was very gentle on the bite. Interestingly enough, Abner bites down with all the force he can muster; despite the "soft mouth" labs typically have.

I would consider the Dane a typical representative of his breed, bitework-wise. The gentle grip. Abner is the exception to his type. And the JRT clamped on like a snapping turtle that couldn't be flung off no matter how he was swung.

In one of my books back east there's a list in the introduction of all the breeds that have actually attained a Sch1 or higher. Wish I had it here. I can't remember if the St. Bernard was one of them.




That being said, I don't think a St. Bernard would do well at Schutzhund because of the gentleness. I'm sure one could be trained to bite, but it would probably be like the aforementioned Dane: very gentle with the decoy. I think it's possible to get a Sch title on almost any breed; the question is: what are the scores, and how does the dog actually perform? Does he barely scrape by, or does he actually impress the judge with his attitude and ability.