Malinios are all prey...lol - Page 3

Jeff, Perhaps Villier has been bred to different bitches which can account for the varying production? Or are you seeing this much of a difference in the same litter? I think all too often, people forget that it takes two great dogs to have a decent litter. How often do you hear people talk about the dam of a litter? When is the last time you saw an add on here showcasing the female? Nah, its always a son of X male or the granddaughter of X male.

I have worked this dog on a few occassions. Yes he does have natural aggression. He is a very fast dog on the entries. But his grip is not optimal.  It is 3/4 at best and is a bit growly.   No problem in ring though. Only pointed in Sch. In sch he would not break a 90 at a big trial due to the grips. He is a cool dog though and Lisa has done a super job with him. I saw him when he first got to the US and I worked him...wow what a mess....especially in the blind. Herve Muvenga did the training on him in France....This is just my opinion...after working him...for what its worth.

oh ya...one last thing...i have seen a few offspring. I think he produces alot of floppy eared dogs.  Sam you are 100% correct. People dont realize the bitch for breeding is as important or more important. Too many people (especially mali people) here in the US just throw any 2 malis together for breeding. Dont matter if they are titled or not. I know this comment will open up a can of worms cause malis dont need to be titled for breeding....but things you must think about when breeding are 1) does the dog have correct temperment 2) does the dog have correct working drives 3) how does the dog handle stress? Stress not only comes in bitework but in OB. (and tracking) and environment. In otherwords, how does the dog take pressure from the handler? You can only find this out through extensive training. Which can take over 3 years. Also how is the dogs conformation. Not as far as show dogs go but is his structure correct? Alot of in experienced people here in the US are breeding too many malis cause they can do bitework.....kinda comming out of the mondioring circle...since the sport is still relativly new here in the US...it brings new people that are inexperienced...and with it comes in proper breeding.  I am not speaking of everyone...but thats what i am seeing. Tons of bad breedings down by me anyway. OK, I opened up the can........let me have it!!! Or better yet...i am just gonna bail and go to the river for some surfing and beers!! yall hack it out! 

Dave, your comments on today's breeding are - RIGHT ON!  Very few serious breeders who understand both structure and tempermant, plus genetics, etc.  

Get A Real Dog, thanks for the kind words!  I guess I should explain what I ment by seeing "prey".  To me, when a dog is calmly barking for the bite, it is demonstrating a learned, non defense behavior.  The dog is not "afraid", hence it is not in "defence" which = defending itself from a perceived threat.  This dog demonstrates a pretty solid bark, so I don't see "defensive" or threat induced aggression.  When you see a dog that "screams" in the blind, lots of teeth and whites of eyes, you know you are seeing a dog reacting to what it perceives as a threat - in defensive aggression.

No doubt a dog can be handled in such a way that it becomes dangerous to its handler - a very sad thing. I do like to remind people however that positive training came from marine mammal trainers... people who work with large, not so friendly, non domesticated animals like leopard seals that would love to eat them!  When I see a damaged dog, one that has lost trust in humans and reacts with aggression, I see an animal that would respond the very best to pure pos! ; )   Alas, pure positive, like prey drive, are poorly understood by the majority of folks in thesport.

Again, thanks for your kind words and I look forward to PMs from  you if I can be of any help.

Hey, Gard, I kinda got excited for you for a moment. There was a Villier daughter for sale on his site, but when you scroll down it says "sold". At least he's honest about his dogs for sale. It said in the discription that she is vocal and chewy on the sleeve. More or less a club level dog.

No worries Sam. I have a deposit on a litter who's sire comes from the same kennel as Villier, but bred a little different.

As for an Endor pup, as far as I know he was sold and still out of the country. Heard a rumor he may become available again.  I know of another avenue to get the blood but I had to put my hand on a bible and swear that I would never tell 

As for the floppy ears, yes that kennel/bloodline is known for soft ears so i may end up with a lop eared dog....lol if he ends up biting like his daddy and has aggression like Villier, he can have lop ears, and one eye for all I care.

We shall see...........

GARD, It's a Malinois. I wouldn't be concerned with asthetics either! ;). Good luck with the new pup. I'm gonna get a pup this fall or next spring. I don't even have a dog to train right now for the first time in about 15 years.

It really depends on preferences and needs.  Too much aggression and frantic behavior???  Hard to control for the sport of Schutzhund and will get killed on grips in phase "C".  And,,,,,what're your tracks going to look like??  K9 or PP??  Doesn't matter, chew on the guy, transfer bites,,,,who cares, just hang on and don't let go.  In fact, even if I tell you let go,,,take your time, what's the rush?   Personally, I don't like a blue gene and am not a big fan of Contes Hoffmann dogs.  Big but slow and too nervy and short on the grips for me.  Okay for the Ring sports but will get crucified on the SchH field.  Remember, before everyone gets all bunched up, SchH is a GSD sport, developed for a different type of gripping behavior and you will get scored by that criteria.

Hey Pack, just saying that a dog that is showing eyes and teeth in the blind is in true "defense", meaning he's scared shittless!  Doesn't impress me at all. I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. Hope that clears up, but then, maybe I'm confused! Happens a lot. : )