This is a placeholder text
Group text
by nonacona60 on 14 August 2010 - 03:08
Everyone has his own opinion..I don't understand whats the point to debate each others opinion as to try and prove one is right and one is wrong.... everyone thinks their opinion is right because that is how they feel....So really, is there any point in debating an opinion? Bottom line, there is no right and no wrong in an opinion, regardless of who's opinion it is...
by Sock Puppet on 14 August 2010 - 04:08
Isn't that what a forum is a debate of differing views? Isn't that the reason we are here? If we all did everything exactly the same what would the sense be to be here?
No one is arguing we are debating. Nothing mean. No sarcasm. Nothing.
No one is arguing we are debating. Nothing mean. No sarcasm. Nothing.
by Myracle on 14 August 2010 - 05:08
Opinions are awesome.
Laws shouldn't be based on opinion though.
Laws should be based on the public good, as that is the only purpose of a government. IMO, the only laws that need exist are those that prevent harm. I do not believe it is the purpose of a government to legislate any one POVs ethics.
I would oppose making it illegal to oppose homosexuality, to use hate speech, and to counter-protest against Pride rallies.
Kids begin developing a sense of gender identity and sexuality rather early on.
Most of the people in the LGBT community knew rather early, as in, well before puberty, who and what they were.
In general, children are over-exposed to sex in our culture.
Sex, and violence. And it has a tremendous impact on their wellbeing.
However, it would have been awesome if someone had explained at some point when I was a kid, what the hell was "wrong with me". They might have mentioned it in the horrible sex ed class in 6th grade.
Might have saved me a few suicide attempts.
Laws shouldn't be based on opinion though.
Laws should be based on the public good, as that is the only purpose of a government. IMO, the only laws that need exist are those that prevent harm. I do not believe it is the purpose of a government to legislate any one POVs ethics.
I would oppose making it illegal to oppose homosexuality, to use hate speech, and to counter-protest against Pride rallies.
Kids begin developing a sense of gender identity and sexuality rather early on.
Most of the people in the LGBT community knew rather early, as in, well before puberty, who and what they were.
In general, children are over-exposed to sex in our culture.
Sex, and violence. And it has a tremendous impact on their wellbeing.
However, it would have been awesome if someone had explained at some point when I was a kid, what the hell was "wrong with me". They might have mentioned it in the horrible sex ed class in 6th grade.
Might have saved me a few suicide attempts.
by beetree on 14 August 2010 - 13:08
I still have these thoughts:
1. If we can acknowledge the fact that gay people are a minority, why is their "lifestyle" presented as a fifty-fifty proposition to the children? (Katie Perry anyone?)
2. If how we approach sex with our young children, doesn't matter, how do we explain the fact that children involved in sex, inappropriately through abuse are often the next generation of abusers? Or have no self-worth? Who has the statistics on early sex experiences and adult preferences?
3. Is the male homosexual experience compared to the lesbian experience, even remotely the same?
(Yes, what is with this "role playing", dress up stuff?)
4. The male gay culture has many aspects, believe me I've seen it all when I lived in Provincetown in my younger days, and one of them is promiscuity. That is not the same as the fashion, decoratng homebody, being portrayed on the TV.
5. How screwed up will the next generation of surrogates and invitro babies be when their adoptive mommies and daddies are all divorced and they are always wondering about the "biological" donor. (So many if's are yet to come out of this one.)
I think children's sexuality can be influenced. Pedophiles know this and they call it "grooming". That does worry me how it applies to the complete nature of how we become sexual beings.
Does a homosexual couple dream of a child just like them or do they think sometimes, won't it be a whole lot better/easier if in the end the parts do fit?
(Mudwick I am not singling you out or hating you at all. You are probably hyper-aware of how this issue is presented to your son, and I am sure you are doing the absolute best for him, and you. I'm just trying to have an honest converstation.)
by Dex on 14 August 2010 - 15:08
beetree - thank you for your posts on this. It is really refreshing that you have outlined your thoughts without the need to attack others in a way which I can only say is demeaning. I agree with quite a large part of what you say. I do not advocate spending resources teaching kids more about gay lifestyles than about straight ones. Your are right, the majority of the population wherever you are, are straight so I do not see a need to publicise any more than necessary gay sex. Despite what others may believe on here, I also have very traditional views, in that I do not like to have my nose rubbed in others affairs and believe people should keep to themselves in what they do behind closed doors. However, what I do support is for every person to lead a life without the worry of being subjected to ridicule, bias or hatred because they happen to prefer partners of the same sex. I would much rather associate with a gay person where they to be someone who goes about there normal daily business, being lawful and contributing to society in working and paying their taxes, as opposed to a straight person who preaches hatred because they believe only other straight people have any merit in this world. With regards to education in schools, provided acceptance and compassion is taught then that is the main thing.
It can never be said that gay people have not contributed in a country like America. There are thousands that live normal lives, not imposing their lifestyle onto anyone, much as there are heterosexuals coupes who just get on with their lives quietly. Instituations like the army that obviously have men and women fighting to protect their country from the injustices that take place in the world and to make America a safer place - why would anyone ever mark a soldier that is gay and has done their rightful duty as any less worthy than a heterosexual soldier? For some to have that attitude, given the fact all soldiers place their lives in jeopardy, I find disgusting. Whether or not one agrees with the reason for going to war is irrelevant, the fact is these people are doing a duty, and to be treated unfairly, as has blatantly occurred in the States, because of sexuality is something that should never ever have happened.
Beetree - you have raised alot of other interesting points. Personally, I am undecided when it comes to raising kids and how they should be able to be brought into this world or who should adopt them. My only real opinon in this areas is that I believe kids thrive in environments where there are adults in stable relationships. Providing kids have a balanced upbringing with committed parents then that is the main cosideration. I'm not sure what it is like in the States, but in the UK I personally feel that kids are not being brought up to respect others and do what they want with no regard to some of their actions - maybe its just a sign of the times, but it used to be that to disrespect a teacher or a policeman would mean a good telling off by parents, but nowadays its just as likely that some parents take the kids side and march up the school to complain about the teacher......
It can never be said that gay people have not contributed in a country like America. There are thousands that live normal lives, not imposing their lifestyle onto anyone, much as there are heterosexuals coupes who just get on with their lives quietly. Instituations like the army that obviously have men and women fighting to protect their country from the injustices that take place in the world and to make America a safer place - why would anyone ever mark a soldier that is gay and has done their rightful duty as any less worthy than a heterosexual soldier? For some to have that attitude, given the fact all soldiers place their lives in jeopardy, I find disgusting. Whether or not one agrees with the reason for going to war is irrelevant, the fact is these people are doing a duty, and to be treated unfairly, as has blatantly occurred in the States, because of sexuality is something that should never ever have happened.
Beetree - you have raised alot of other interesting points. Personally, I am undecided when it comes to raising kids and how they should be able to be brought into this world or who should adopt them. My only real opinon in this areas is that I believe kids thrive in environments where there are adults in stable relationships. Providing kids have a balanced upbringing with committed parents then that is the main cosideration. I'm not sure what it is like in the States, but in the UK I personally feel that kids are not being brought up to respect others and do what they want with no regard to some of their actions - maybe its just a sign of the times, but it used to be that to disrespect a teacher or a policeman would mean a good telling off by parents, but nowadays its just as likely that some parents take the kids side and march up the school to complain about the teacher......
by Myracle on 15 August 2010 - 22:08
I still have these thoughts:
1. If we can acknowledge the fact that gay people are a minority, why is their "lifestyle" presented as a fifty-fifty proposition to the children? (Katie Perry anyone?)
Who said we should present it as a 50/50 to anyone? That's mathmatically inaccurate, and stupid.
2. If how we approach sex with our young children, doesn't matter, how do we explain the fact that children involved in sex, inappropriately through abuse are often the next generation of abusers? Or have no self-worth? Who has the statistics on early sex experiences and adult preferences?
Name one way this is relevant to the conversation at hand. Being honest with children, and abusing them, are completely unrelated, and your insistance on relating them is insulting.
This is a stereotype. Not all gay men dress-up or role play. I'm not sure what you're actually asking, here.
3. Is the male homosexual experience compared to the lesbian experience, even remotely the same?
(Yes, what is with this "role playing", dress up stuff?)
Are ANY two people's experiences the same?
4. The male gay culture has many aspects, believe me I've seen it all when I lived in Provincetown in my younger days, and one of them is promiscuity. That is not the same as the fashion, decoratng homebody, being portrayed on the TV.Again, stereotype. I linked, on the other thread, a very in-depth, peer reviewed study examine the ways in which anti-same-sex marriage laws, and cultural oppression contribute to promiscuity in the gay community. In countries where gay marriage is legal, the rate of promiscuity and divorce drops to the same rates as heterosexuals.
5. How screwed up will the next generation of surrogates and invitro babies be when their adoptive mommies and daddies are all divorced and they are always wondering about the "biological" donor. (So many if's are yet to come out of this one.)Well, to get divorced would require getting married first, now wouldn't it.
I don't hear you crying about the children who have to grow up without the protective umbrella of a marriage for their family.
Straight people have children through all the methods you just mentioned- are you arguing that no one should be permitted to have a sperm donor?
I think children's sexuality can be influenced. Pedophiles know this and they call it "grooming". That does worry me how it applies to the complete nature of how we become sexual beings.Pedophilia isn't a sexual orientation. Most pedophiles are heterosexual men. Pedophilia is a crime, and the result of a mental disorder. Most people who are molested and abused as children, DO NOT grow up to be pedophiles. It requires the additional factor of a mental disorder, on top of the childhood trauma, to make a pedophile. And not all pedophiles were abused as children. This is crap produced by liberal lawyers to excuse their clients' evil behavior.
That a pedophile can abuse a child and create a sort of Stockholm syndrome, has nothing to do with "influincing their sexuality". Its called terrorizing the child. They don't suddently develop a sexuality in which they are attracted to pedophiles- and its sickening to imply that they do.
[continued]
by Myracle on 15 August 2010 - 23:08
Does a homosexual couple dream of a child just like them or do they think sometimes, won't it be a whole lot better/easier if in the end the parts do fit?Just like any other loving parents, homosexual or heterosexual, we all just want happy, healthy children who grow up to be good citizens and good human beings.
Most gay people are aware that their child will most likely be heterosexual, since the overwhelming majority of human beings are.
I sincerely doubt that anyone would *want* their child to be gay, and have to suffer through what the GLBT community suffers through on a routine basis.
(Mudwick I am not singling you out or hating you at all. You are probably hyper-aware of how this issue is presented to your son, and I am sure you are doing the absolute best for him, and you. I'm just trying to have an honest converstation.)I am continually baffled as to why there is the constant insiunation that my relationship is homosexual.
Man + Woman = Heterosexual, last I heard.
My son sees mental health professionals routinely for his ADHD treatment [which predates his father's death; it runs in the family, both of his half-brothers have it, as do I.] Every single mental health professional who has ever encountered him, has remarked that he is well-adjusted, happy and self-confident, and very proud of his family.
If anything changes that, it will be hate speech, harrassment and bigotry from people he encounters outside of our home.
Children need love, support and gentle discipline. The sexual orientation or gender identity of their parent[s] has zero impact on their mental well-being [as outlined in the several links I posted in the other thread.]
And yes, I know two adult men who were raised by their transsexual father [female-to-male].
One is a Baptist Minister, the other is in Law School. They're both married, to woman. Very well adjusted young men.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top