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by Vixen on 05 August 2010 - 11:08
Hopefully you have a book about feeding raw? Very useful and helpful to have on your bookshelf.
'Weight bearing' bones to eat, (thighs and legs) are not actually recommended. Which is why chicken wings and backs are popular. Teeth can be damaged on the larger thicker bones.
Don't forget Tripe too and rabbit. Offal - liver, kidney and heart also needed.
Vegetables and fruit every so often, but needs to be pureed - then mix together the juice and pulp, and feed.
Also pilchards.
Yoghurt needs to be the plain natural live yoghurt.
But a good book on the subject is really helpful and very interesting, and guides you to create a good nutritional healthy balance in feeding your dog.
Vixen
'Weight bearing' bones to eat, (thighs and legs) are not actually recommended. Which is why chicken wings and backs are popular. Teeth can be damaged on the larger thicker bones.
Don't forget Tripe too and rabbit. Offal - liver, kidney and heart also needed.
Vegetables and fruit every so often, but needs to be pureed - then mix together the juice and pulp, and feed.
Also pilchards.
Yoghurt needs to be the plain natural live yoghurt.
But a good book on the subject is really helpful and very interesting, and guides you to create a good nutritional healthy balance in feeding your dog.
Vixen
by Pharaoh on 06 August 2010 - 01:08
What are pilchards?
Michele
Michele
by Jyl on 06 August 2010 - 01:08
Michele I was wondering the same thing...hehe
by northwoodsGSD on 06 August 2010 - 02:08
Vixen,
When mentioning weight bearing bones; it is usually refferring to larger animals such as cows, deer, etc. Those you do not want to feed. but you can feed any part of fowl without any problems. I have also fed all bones from newborn/young calves, pigs, lambs, & goats without any problems, as they are still very soft & maleable.
As for the other stuff you mention. I don't feed any of it, other than some organ meat. Dogs don't need veggies or fruit or yogurt.
While they do need the nutrients from organ meat, you need to be careful not to feed too much as it is very rich & can cause stomach upset. I feed organ meat as about 5% of their overall food intake.
Here are some good sites to look into:http://www.barfworld.com/
Jane Johnsons site
Laura's rawdog ranch
Raw fed
When mentioning weight bearing bones; it is usually refferring to larger animals such as cows, deer, etc. Those you do not want to feed. but you can feed any part of fowl without any problems. I have also fed all bones from newborn/young calves, pigs, lambs, & goats without any problems, as they are still very soft & maleable.
As for the other stuff you mention. I don't feed any of it, other than some organ meat. Dogs don't need veggies or fruit or yogurt.
While they do need the nutrients from organ meat, you need to be careful not to feed too much as it is very rich & can cause stomach upset. I feed organ meat as about 5% of their overall food intake.
Here are some good sites to look into:http://www.barfworld.com/
Jane Johnsons site
Laura's rawdog ranch
Raw fed
by Sock Puppet on 06 August 2010 - 03:08
bump
by Vixen on 06 August 2010 - 13:08
Pilchards (probably called something else in US) are small oily fish, like sardines.
Hello NorthwoodsGSD, appreciate your comments regarding 'weight-bearing' bones. I remember having the impression that it did actually mean thicker bones on chickens too, but obviously could well be wrong about this. However, I would question the idea that dogs do not need vegetables and fruit? (Purely responding politely and not arguementively by the way, and interested in all aspects of the raw feeding). Occasional pulped fruit contains vitamins, enzymes and anti-oxidants. Perhaps you would be kind enough to check too, but I understood that although dogs are carnivores, this does not mean they are non vegetable eaters. Consider the stomach and intestines that is readily eaten by carnivores, containing the mulched vegetable matter of the dead grazing animal? I believe it is the fibre from vegetable matter plus other important nutrients not gained from a meat only diet that is important to carnivores in helping achieve a healthy balance.
Thank you for adding those extra raw feeding links.
One of the books I particularly enjoyed on my bookshelf is; 'Give Your Dog A Bone' by Dr. Ian Billinghurst.
Kind Regards,
Vixen
Hello NorthwoodsGSD, appreciate your comments regarding 'weight-bearing' bones. I remember having the impression that it did actually mean thicker bones on chickens too, but obviously could well be wrong about this. However, I would question the idea that dogs do not need vegetables and fruit? (Purely responding politely and not arguementively by the way, and interested in all aspects of the raw feeding). Occasional pulped fruit contains vitamins, enzymes and anti-oxidants. Perhaps you would be kind enough to check too, but I understood that although dogs are carnivores, this does not mean they are non vegetable eaters. Consider the stomach and intestines that is readily eaten by carnivores, containing the mulched vegetable matter of the dead grazing animal? I believe it is the fibre from vegetable matter plus other important nutrients not gained from a meat only diet that is important to carnivores in helping achieve a healthy balance.
Thank you for adding those extra raw feeding links.
One of the books I particularly enjoyed on my bookshelf is; 'Give Your Dog A Bone' by Dr. Ian Billinghurst.
Kind Regards,
Vixen
by uvw on 06 August 2010 - 14:08
vixen, there is much debate about dogs/wolves eating the stomach contents of their prey (depending on which raw feeding "philosophy" you belong to). obviously if the prey is a small rabbit or rodent, the stomach would probably be eaten whole, but won't contain much plant matter due to its size.
if you read Wolves: behavior, ecology, and conservation By L. David Mech, who is one of the leading experts on wolves and their diets you will find:
"wolves are not fed by meat alone; in fact, they require the less palatable or less accessible portions of their prey in order to maintain a balanced intake of nutrients. to grow and maintain their own bodies, wolves need to ingest all the major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the digestive system." (page 124)
you can then go on to find:
"if the stomach of a large prey animal freezes before wolves find the carcass (e.g., if it died from starvation, accident, or earlier wounding by wolves), the wolves commonly consume the entire stomach wall by laborious nibbling with their incisors. Mucous membranes, an important component of ungulate stomachs, intestines, and snouts, are a vital source or essential fatty acids." (page 125)
also, if you've ever tried to give your dog an entire tripe with contents, you will almost always find that they will shake as much of the contents out as possible.
i hope that explanation helps.
donna
if you read Wolves: behavior, ecology, and conservation By L. David Mech, who is one of the leading experts on wolves and their diets you will find:
"wolves are not fed by meat alone; in fact, they require the less palatable or less accessible portions of their prey in order to maintain a balanced intake of nutrients. to grow and maintain their own bodies, wolves need to ingest all the major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the digestive system." (page 124)
you can then go on to find:
"if the stomach of a large prey animal freezes before wolves find the carcass (e.g., if it died from starvation, accident, or earlier wounding by wolves), the wolves commonly consume the entire stomach wall by laborious nibbling with their incisors. Mucous membranes, an important component of ungulate stomachs, intestines, and snouts, are a vital source or essential fatty acids." (page 125)
also, if you've ever tried to give your dog an entire tripe with contents, you will almost always find that they will shake as much of the contents out as possible.
i hope that explanation helps.
donna
by Vixen on 06 August 2010 - 15:08
Donna, Thank you, found that dietary observation and information most interesting. (Still feel uneasy about this though). For example, from what I have passed learned, there are people (probably Vegetarians) who feed 'Complete Vegetarian Kibble Diets' to their dogs - (not looking to discuss the rights or wrongs of this), except that apparently a carnivore can maintain a healthy life if necessary on a no meat diet, but a meat only diet will be lacking in essential vitamins and nutrients found in vegetable/fruit matter.
Is the above correct or as it been proven incorrect?
(The plot seems to thicken)!!! LOL
Regards,
Vixen.
Is the above correct or as it been proven incorrect?
(The plot seems to thicken)!!! LOL
Regards,
Vixen.
by uvw on 06 August 2010 - 16:08
the problem is, it hasn't been proven either way (for processed diets). no company wants to fund and complete an unbiased study of anything, because then there would be 1 truth, and the ones who don't follow it would potentially be put out of business. (needless to say there are way to many variables to do such a study with all the vaccines, drugs, and chemicals they push on our pets)
a carnivore can maintain life on a processed or vegetarian diet the same way that i can maintain life on mc donalds. some animals may seem healthy, some may have health issues immediately, and some may not develop health issues until late in life, or health issues may go unnoticed, misdiagnosed, or undiagnosed....and some animals may just be fine and live to 10, 12, or 14 years old.
the point is, an animal (people included) will always do better on a natural, species appropriate diet over a processed diet.
adding fruits and veggies should really be the least of everyone's concerns (there are lots of arguments over this, lol). you're not harming your dog by adding these items unless your dog has allergies, yeast problems, arthritis, or cancer (certain fruits and veggies for certain problems). the more important part is that the diet or majority of the diet is a natural, unprocessed, species appropriate one.
a carnivore can maintain life on a processed or vegetarian diet the same way that i can maintain life on mc donalds. some animals may seem healthy, some may have health issues immediately, and some may not develop health issues until late in life, or health issues may go unnoticed, misdiagnosed, or undiagnosed....and some animals may just be fine and live to 10, 12, or 14 years old.
the point is, an animal (people included) will always do better on a natural, species appropriate diet over a processed diet.
adding fruits and veggies should really be the least of everyone's concerns (there are lots of arguments over this, lol). you're not harming your dog by adding these items unless your dog has allergies, yeast problems, arthritis, or cancer (certain fruits and veggies for certain problems). the more important part is that the diet or majority of the diet is a natural, unprocessed, species appropriate one.
by Nans gsd on 06 August 2010 - 21:08
And guys what I found out that works best with vegi's and fruit is to grind or puree them; if you don't they come out the same way they went in. So ground or pureed at least you know that are getting some of the vegi's/fruits in the system. I do find it keeps them from being constipated as well as a boost of vit's and minerals they do not normally get with just meat(s). Best of luck, Nanci
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