can/could the pittbull handle military work... - Page 2

Wow I totally disagree that pits are not athletic, intelligent, or trainable. If anything they are more. And Im not a fan of the breed myself. I did have pits growing up however and they were great family dogs. I dont care for their look and imo the desire to harm other dogs will never be able to be bred out of them. I will say they were great with our foals.

Many pits in the shelter that I frequent have questionable backgrounds. Since PD's want a breed thats reliable and can choose from a vast selection with a decent reputation, they will never choose a pit.

I also dont agree that they are the most versatile of breeds for the job. I can think of several breeds of dogs that are equal to or better than a shepherd but again supply and demand makes them harder to come by. If you want a super intelligent breed that can be a formidable opponent, get a Neo. I had one I wanted to teach the bark and hold and some bite work. The helper told me no because the dog was too big and heavy.

I think PD's buy what they know.  And sad but true some handlers Ive met had never had any dog experience on this level before going into the K9 unit.

PAY ATTENTION.   What I said was, that AS A BREED, pit bulls are simply NOT AS intelligent, trainable, and athletic as a GSD.

That is simply true.  Amazing that you can't face that fact.

BHaugh writes:  "Wow I totally disagree that pits are not athletic, intelligent, or trainable. If anything they are more"

Ok, MORE intelligent and trainable and athletic than a GSD?  And then you write this about pits:  "imo the desire to harm other dogs will never be able to be bred out of them. ... Since PD's want a breed thats reliable and can choose from a vast selection with a decent reputation, they will never choose a pit."

More intelligent & more trainable, yet in the next sentence you say that of course PD will choose "a breed that's reliable."

Then you write that GSD are not the most versatile and if you want an intelligent, formidable dog get a Neo.  Oh, yeah, EXCEPT THAT your Neo "was too big and heavy. " 

You're contradicting yourself all over the place.

 

VM i tought they would have more civil drive n as for the gsd ..they are the best all round working dog as well as the malinois but JMO like ..i think if the pit was bred to do a military role then it would excel at it    one more thing lets keep the bitching to a min please lol

The breed came about because of Dog Fighting as a sport. The rules of such a sport demand that the dogs be friendly or at least impartial to people. So leciesters doghandler- I don't see them as being higher in civil drive. And of course there are always exceptions.

The only way to truly figure it out is for a real supply of Pitbulls to be bred and trained as Military dogs and put them against the other suppliers for working military dogs and then we will see if they can handle the work. As of now, the Pitbull breed is relatively not used or bred for these purposes as other breeds...

To Speak about Breeds as a whole, we cannot be quoting one or two examples. A dog that you may have had, that you think had potential to do certain types of training, but then you did not actually follow through with the training because of a reluctance from a trainer, is only one example, that I am not sure is a real demonstration of that breed's versatility over another. Please understand I mean no disrespect to the dog or trainer, which could possibly do the work.

If someone were to ask if German Shepherds could handle Schutzhund, Ringsport, PSA, Police Work , Search and rescue, detection, Military etc, we know the answer because we have a basis and track record. Also these aforementioned endeavors, give a very good basis for judgment if there were some other endeavor that we were asking if the GSD would be capable of doing.... Because we have demonstrations of the athleticism, intelligence, and train ability in a specific sport or work endeavor we can make statements about the breed.

Maybe a pitbul breeder can tell me when looking for the right military dogs, what bloodlines, to look for or which breeder to go to, to get the dogs for this purpose.... In the GSD, although we may split hairs, it is well known, that certain bloodlines, Kennels and individual dogs produce consistently dogs with high drive, civil and prey and can be utilized as in the past for Police/Military work. Also the same groups may actually have produced dogs in the past for this purpose...  If some one can show this kind of statistic or program or past performance, maybe we would have a basis for comparison.

" The breed came about because of Dog Fighting as a sport. The rules of such a sport demand that the dogs be friendly or at least impartial to people. So leciesters doghandler- I don't see them as being higher in civil drive. And of course there are always exceptions."

Agreed, vithala.

My GSD and I train with pits, AmBulls, cane corsos, and dobe/pit mixes. They are great at PSA! And great obedience, too.

While we're making generalizations about the GSD breed being FANTASTIC at working, let's remember that generally you're only talking about one of the four lines. Well....same with pits. Some lines are better at it than others.  

Some lines are better at it than others''

thats what i was thiking so surely a pit out of the right bloodlines with the right training right handler it could do the jobs of Detection,Bomb, Narc i understand they lack the civil drive but after breeding the most civilist males and females JMO like and if im wrong please tell me

VM doberman x pitbull ????? what are they like? and was it a planed breeding ??
 

IMO, no. They don't have the athleticism, intelligence, and trainability of GSD.


Thanks for making my day! That's the funniest thing I have read in eons!  ; )   Nope,  they sure aren't athletic at all. LOL!

ANywho, as someone who has had  many pit bulls over the past nearly 30 years I can give you a quick, easy anwser...  the American pit bull has never been bred to be aggressive toward humans.  Quite the contrary.  While the GSD is down from animals which HAD to have restrained bites on the very fragiliest of animals (a sheep's leg) the bulldog had to deal with the business end of a bull.  This resulted in two VERY VERY DIFFERENT animals.  This is why people who like SHEEP dogs hardly ever are huge fans of BULL dogs, and vica versa.  It's cool - everyone relates to a different type of dog.

The heart of a good bulldog could not be more different from the heart of a good GSD.  The GSD is bred to be aloof, wary and very loyal to one person.  They were bred to tend sheep and to have inhibited bites.  The pit bull comes from bull-baiting dogs (dog fighting is just a small portion of its history) where an animal which attacked the rear, or a limb, would not only be killed by the animal, but would also be culled by its owner.  The bulldog MUST grab the nose or ear AND HANG ON in order to survive in their world.

As well, those who developed them were'nt stupid... they knew that an animal which could bring an 1800 pound bull to its knees had better not be human aggressive.  Better breeders know that to this day.

A pit bull can easily learn to do schutzhund. I myself have titled several all the way to SchH III and FH. Its no big deal for them, but they do NOT look at it in the same way the GSDs do.  The better specimens have low "defense" (meaning they don't see things as threats to be threatened).  They are easy going and confident, and see strangers as friends until proven otherwise.  Remember, after being torn to pieces in the pit, the dogs had to accept being hurt badly while being tended  to by their owners (and strangers) and could not redirect while in the pit  with two handlers and a ref.  This is why well bred pit bulls NEVER bite people who are breaking up dog fights.

Sadly, many people alive today have never even SEEN a REAL pit bull!  For real.  They have seen oversized, blue am staff mixes, or human aggressive "cur" defensive dogs.  They don't know that a real pit bull does not weigh over 65 pounds and is usually much less.  This breed has been going through a fad like the poor GSD did in the 60's.  It is very hard on a breed, and as most people know, the dogs around after a fad are poor examples of the breed.

I have donated several dogs tothe WSP for detection work, and am proud to say that my pit bulls rank as the best in the 50+ dog program. Fact, not just my idea.  They have intense drive, lack of fear and are very people friendly.  They make great detection dogs.

I would NEVER want to see bulldogs used by the police for patrol work.  First, police rank among some of the worst trainers on the planet. Pit bulls are VERY compliant and do not work well if force is used on them. Second, pit bulls would tend to want to direct on other dogs - rather than bad guys!  Their aggression is directed toward animals, not humans. (Except in poorly bred examples).  Their bite is no better or worse than a GSD, and yes, they can be taught to release easily, but when the chips are down a bulldog will tend to go toward the face, as his

Lecs, I don't know if it was planned or not. The puppy I saw (about 6-8 months old, I think) looks like a solid bright-tan Dobie, slightly shorter in height than regular Dobies. Loves to work. I'm sure 4Pack knows more about that dog than I do, as I've only been training with that club for about 3 months and have only seen the pit/dobie once. Anyway...it's a really beautiful dog! 

A friend of mine is waiting for a puppy out of a Mexican AmStaff bitch who is really drivey. Hopefully the puppy will show AND work!

OMG, NoCurs, can you read????  I said pits are not as athletic as GSD, and you immediately read that as saying pits are not athletic at all.  No one on here has said that.  And DUH, no, they generally were not bred to have aggression toward humans but to have extreme aggression towards animals.  So what is your "quick answer" about? 

As someone who has known pits and known people with quality AmStaffs and Staffordshire terriers, the ignorance and inability to comprehend simple English of the pit fanciers on this list is astounding.  You are so used to being defensive that you are reading things into posts that were never said.

The original post is about using shelter pits for police and military work.  You only have to go to a shelter, any shelter that is full of pits, and look at how many of them cannot be adopted out to homes with children, with even middle school children, with cats, with dogs, etc. etc.  You are simply in denial if you can't see this.

A lot of you are also mistaking brute power and musculature for true athleticism.  I've seen pit breeds in SchH.  Overall they simply haven't the speed, coordination, and finesse of a GSD.  If they did, you would see the top handlers in SchH winning competitions with them.  But you don't, because although there may be exceptional individuals, they simply cannot hold a candle to the GSD and Mali and other breeds in this type of work.  Look around.  Do you think if they excelled at this work that the top handlers wouldn't be training them and winning with them?  The people who compete at the national and international levels want to WIN.  If a Collie could win it, they'd be competing Collies.  If a pit bull could win it all, you'd be seeing pit bulls out there.  But there's a reason that you don't see them much at all.  And it's nothing against them.  Just like it's nothing against the Collies that they're not out there.  It's not what they do best.  So what?

TinglesandTails made a lot of excellent points.