How difficult is it to breed for both looks/structure and working ability? - Page 5

Pedigree Database

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

by xPyrotechnic on 03 September 2021 - 18:09

Duke i think i understand what your saying now, after doing research into a potential male, its hard enough to find someone that fits the females pedigree, working ability and the structure of the dog. Leading to compromises such as outcrossing her and then it becomes harder to look for the structure im looking for, then I would need to find out their working ability and are they prey/defence driven ad do they come from a stock of well thought out breeding's.

by ValK on 03 September 2021 - 22:09

Ric, of course one cannot figure out dog's temperament from picture. but its could provide the hints on dog's physical potentials.

excuse me duke but you're beginning to sounds like your ego has been somewhat suffered.
better to remain silent than to use such arguments like:

"...the dogs on your pics may look good, but we don't know anything on their character/quality
...the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence...
...he says most of those dogs will not pass any test done today for LE...
...they might just been walking the border as a deterrent..."

look, i don't need a friends to tell me about these dogs. albeit i don't know these particular dogs on pictures, i'm personally familiar with such type of dogs, with requirements established toward these dogs, with ratio of success vs. fails produced, with nuances in approach to selection candidates for use in breeding.
b.t.w. wolf x GSD. i did know about this program way back in late 70s and already told sometime ago somewhere here in conversation about it and the reasons for its complete failure. so its not news for me.

by duke1965 on 04 September 2021 - 00:09

nothing to do with my ego, just facts, can give you another one, I know people who bought loads of actual border dogs after the wall fell down,policedog dealers, guess what they told me about overall quality
certainly there where good dogs there, but loads where not good, by todays standart, also many where not the strong boned ,thick skulled black sables people love today from DDR lines, but guess you know that too

by GSCat on 04 September 2021 - 05:09

by ValK on 02 September 2021 - 19:09

returning to topic, here some pictures taken back in 70s and 80s  at borders in different countries. 

what is common - all those countries was belong to Warsaw pact and dogs in pictures a typical type was bred for border's patrol dogs.

you may note how those particular dogs differ even from their regular DDR ancestors on foundation of which they were developed by using  and firmly holding to a certain system of selection in breeding.


Thanks for posting the pix 🙂   Some of the dogs look so much like my dog and her parents, grandparents, etc. 🙂






by ValK on 04 September 2021 - 10:09

duke, i assuming in 1989/90 the western breeders/ dealers didn't know much about eastern border system and way its functioning. the border dogs, you talkin bout, usually means the dogs, used in former DDR at border as deterrent/alarming dogs. this kind of dogs was used only in DDR and its not a patrol dogs. the dealers, who bought these dogs for resale either didn't know difference or did cheat their clients.
each real patrol dog had one handler and each handler, commissioned officer or drafty, did work with one dog. successful work with patrol dog a must have truly established trust and bond between two of them. would you sell your dog with whom you have such relation?
even before the crash of communist regime, all patrol dogs at the end of service life usually was allowed to be discharged to retire with last handler.

by duke1965 on 04 September 2021 - 10:09

Valk, was there a separate breedingprogram to produce these deterrent/alarming dogs ?

by ValK on 04 September 2021 - 11:09

no. just random dogs. there wasn't government financed breeding facilities in DDR. all GSDs was obtained from civilian breeders.
other eastern governments established specialized breeding programs due to lack of popularity in service breeds among general population and absence of sufficient pool to select and pick from.

by duke1965 on 04 September 2021 - 12:09

it was not serious question, iknow it is leftovers from regulair breeding, so not all those dogs where super now where they

by xPyrotechnic on 04 September 2021 - 20:09

They are now washed out versions of themselves. If they don't have temperament problems then they have structural problems, if they don't have that then they have health problems and if they don't have that either then they have issues in their pedigree with very heavy linebreeding's

by ValK on 06 September 2021 - 21:09

"so not all those dogs where super now where they"

i did know about use of chained dogs in DDR on the border line but never seen them and have no idea where they been send and how have been used after wall fall.
and you again trying to steer the trend to equate no name low quality dogs to a dogs which deliberately developed and been kept in succession of such type from generation to generation.
my main point is as i said earlier - all possible to achieve in breeding if there are needs and desire.
if "breeding is an art, not a science" as you said, then one can come to conclusion that perhaps commercial breeders are crappy artists.


Contact information  Disclaimer  Privacy Statement  Copyright Information  Terms of Service  Cookie policy  ↑ Back to top