6 1/2 mos Hip xrays...Opinions Please - Page 4

Agree with HM. Pups look good at 12 weeks, by 7mos, too heavy.

I agree with Susie also. I have seen so much worse and the dogs were totally sound. I have seen marginal joints with pano act like this, though. People do surgery and the dog improves in a month or so. Well, guess what? Due to the fact that the pano was causing the pain, they'd have improved without surgery!

If he were mine, I'd slim him down, build muscle by swimming, walking on sand uphill if possible, and in case it's inflammatory in nature, I'd give krill oil and maybe MSM. I have had some anecdotal accounts of dogs improving on digestive enzymes, too. Theory is somewhat complicated,but that's certainly a "do no harm" addition.

Koots...Boy so do I ! I've gotten opinions from 4 vets. Two of them local to me, small town country vets, and two fancy pants highfalutin city vets in Ill. I'm driving 4 hours to Ill. to see a vet recommended by a friend of a friend...who's a GSD breeder. All the vets said Drav's hips look bad. The two country vets said I'd probably have to put him down young...because out here in podunk...you don't spend thousands of dollars on a dog. The one vet literally laughed, and said.." Unless you want to get him a hip replacement ! " The breeder says it's impossible for him to have HD because it's not in his bloodlines, and none of the other puppies from mom and dad have problems. I have folks telling me leave him be...and wait (the breeder)...and the vet I'm taking him to Thursday telling me TPO...before 10 mos. (after he xrays him again to confirm) . I;ve got lots of advice....I just don't know what the right advice is. Thanks for the well wishes !


BlackThornGSD..... He doesn't say what kind of DNA test. I think thats because he doesn't know actually.... The first time he mentioned it he said,
" If he hasn't made any progress and still has the issues then we follow through with all the basic formalities such as running a DNA test, having a neutral 3rd party Vet to check him one last time just to make sure we are both satisfied with the results."

The second time he said, " The DNA test must be done by the Vet with both of us present and then sealed and mailed. I will pay for a courier to be at the Vet to take the sample as soon as its taken. I hate to be so meticulous but you have to understand its just basic business. "

He also told me if I get TPO, that I am wasting my money, it's experimental at best, and sounds like snake oil to him.
He thinks it's so impossible for HIS pup to have bad hips...that its not his dog and I'm trying to rip him off. That kind of crap wouldnt even enter my head for cryin out loud!

Susie.....Im glad for the new xrays too ! We are looking for any problems....So far all I am getting is hips. When this first started I went over him with a horse womans hands...looking for heat, swelling, tendons, applying pressure....and My vet did the same again...and also ordered xrays of his spine.... nothing. I'm with you...I'm in no hurry...I'm scared and only want to do right by him....I just have to figure out what that is !! Thanks for your input !!



Jenni...again, thank you for taking the time to reply !

I am familiar with pano, but have only seen it on two dogs. Both Black Russian terriers. Whatever is up with Draven, didn't bring pano to my mind...HA but that doesn't mean much :-)

I first noticed his gate off, at 5 mos. By 6 mos, I was concerned enough to bring him to my vet. She said his rear was "weak", and his tail was "floppy" at the base. She recommended xrays of his hips, and spine. The hip xrays are the ones I posted. We were looking for injury to the spin, as well as hip problems. I asked her about his weight, she said he was fine. I asked if it could be a problem because I cut back on his protein about a month before, she said the problem didn't seem to be weight, or diet. (that was at 6 1/2 mos). So...whatever this is, showed up before he was fat. When I started restricting his exercise, I freakin' forgot about restricting his food. He's been on reduced rations for three weeks now and is becoming quite svelte :-) I also started walk hills with him......but was told by the vet Im seeing thursday not to do that. He said from the xrays I sent, it looked like there was no damage to the joints and we wanted to keep it that way until he could take different xrays and put his hands on him. I would love to take him swimming, but everything in wisconsin is frozen...lol I'm hoping more will be made clear thurs....and I truly appreciate your suggestions.

Bet the DNA test is to see if that is the pup he sold you. As you say he just can't believe that his dam and sire produced a pup with bad hips.

Totally agree with Jenni78, a german shepherd with a limp 90% of the time it will be called bad hips.  This was done to my dog as well. 

Thats exactly what he is saying Western Rider ! He did not test his dogs...but all the dogs behind them were tested and seem to be pretty decent dogs...IPO's everywhere.

Now he says he is going to test them....but I doubt he will. He's just going to come up with a reason to not stand by his guarantee.

There is also another pup from same parents different littler that has been listed here as being a DM carrier....Thats not his dog either. Me, and whoever owns that dog, are the only people who have ever had problems.... and he thinks we're in cahoots ! I don't know the people with the other dog, and have never spoke to them, but he thinks I do because I know about the DM thing. I tried to explain... its on PDB !! EVERYONE can see it !

Thanks for the opinion on the hips....Im going to grill the vet on thursday. I have many...many questions.

That breeder is not going to stay in GSDs for long, if he continues to believe the stock he is using is absolutely without fault, and that HD (and DM) - or any future problem either, sounds like - cannot possibly occur in the pups he is producing ! Delusional.

I agree Hundmutter... I tried to explain to him that issues can pop up, even with a history of well tested dogs. I told him I was surprised at the diagnosis too, as I had checked out all the dogs in the lines before I contacted him about buying a pup. It seems he doesn't believe me...or didn't digest my mail. He just replied that he contacted the kennel he got the parents from, and they confirmed there are no problems in their lines. I don't know if I believe he really contacted the kennel though. In my uneducated opinion of GSD Breeders...the kennel seems to be reputable, and experienced...and I doubt they would tell him that it couldn't happen .

I believe he has a tenancy to stretch the truth for several reasons. He also requested my vets contact info, videos, and the xrays sent to him, which I gladly gave him. I suggested he send the info to his vet to look over. He said he did that. I asked for his vets info so I could get his opinion. I also gave him the info on the vet Im going to Thursday. ( that makes 4 vets ) I told him again, if he gave me his vets info, I could have Dravens new xrays sent to him, and he could confer with the Ill. vet about the results. He will not give me his vets information. I believe he hasn't sent any info to "his vet"....I wonder if he even has a vet.

I have been very polite to him up til yesterday...the cloak and dagger DNA stuff, and his continued accusations that I would "switch puppies" finally got to me. My concern at this point is not getting a new puppy from him. I have a puppy, right here. He shadows my every step, and gazes at me with his old soul eyes .... My priority is to do my best to up hold MY contract. The one I made with Draven, the second I took him into my arms....

PS to ANYONE..... If anyone has some good questions to ask the vet Thursday....Please feel free to share them with me ! Again....thank you for all opinions, tips and information <3

Hi. I don't have any questions for your vet, but for you.
Did the 'breeder' get DNA markers for identification of pups on his parent dogs?
And as for knowing his pups, has he not ever heard of MICROCROCHIPS ? That is more deffinate than DNA comparison. At least he would not be able to pull a switcheroo with the swab.

Breeder is ignorant if he thinks that a recessive fault cannot surface at any time.