6 1/2 mos Hip xrays...Opinions Please - Page 2

Herbazen, please read this article. I think you will learn more from it than even a veterinarian will have knowledge of. After all, they get the same info that OFA promotes as research...money keeps pouring into ofa but hip dysplasia has not been eliminated nor has ofa shown a genetic code discovered causing HD....because is not one.

http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/how-do-hips-become-dysplastic

 

Below is an excerpt from the article:

 

Great comparison SunSilver,

In the beginning I thought maybe his brother knocked him hard, but for the life of me couldn't figure out when. Being on a farm with chickens to chase, and horses feet to get under, I had to keep a pretty close eye on them. If I wasn't WITH them, they were crated and usually snoozing.

I read about FHO. The vet seems to think he's more of a candidate for Triple Pelvic Osteotomy because he can't see any damage to the joints, and I don't hear any clicking. Allot will depend on the second set of exrays from what the vets says. I know of one person who had this done with an Old English Sheep Dog as a pup, at 4 yrs old she says he does everything her other dogs do, pain free. None the less, I still worry because my luck with these two hasn't been the best so far. (none of it their fault)

Although the boys supposedly have good dogs behind them (again with my limited knowledge), neither will be bred. I will leave them intact until they are mature, but will leave the breeding to the experts.

I am just hoping he will be sound enough to go along when I take the the horses out...someday.

I attached a video of how he moves. Hopefully it will work !

Thank you Sunsilver for your take on it !!

How do hips become dysplastic? 12/23/2015

By Carol Beuchat PhD"

Let's start with a point made in a previous blog (The 10 most important things to know about canine hip dysplasia), that puppies are born with "perfect", normal hips. Of course, they're puppy hips and not adult hips, but they are quite remarkable.

A newborn puppy looks like it has no joints at all on an x-ray. This is because the ends of the long bones and many parts of the pelvis are soft cartilage at birth. Because cartilage doesn't show up on x-rays, a radiograph of a newborn puppy can look like an apparition of a spooky, disarticulated body. But this is just nature's way of providing enough support to be able to move around while the skeletal grows rapidly in the first few months of life.

The hip joints are also formed of cartilage at birth and are little more than a round ball at the end of the femur that sits in a depression in the pelvis where the hip socket will be.

As the puppy grows, the formation of the bony structures that will become the hip joint is not programmed by genes. Instead, the forces on the joint stimulate the deposition of bone in the right places to form an articulating ball and socket joint. As long as the head of the femur stays seated where it belongs in the developing hip socket, the hip joint should form perfectly.

This seems truly magical, but there's a catch. If, for some reason, the head of the femur is not tightly held in the hip socket, development will go awry. What results is "developmental hip dysplasia"; a malformed hip socket. In dogs, this is canine hip dysplasia.

​Wayne Riser, who studied hip dysplasia in dogs for many years and was also the founder and first director of the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals, explained it this way (1975):

"In all mammalian embryos, the hip is laid down as a single unit from mesenchymal tissue, and it develops normally as long as the components are left in full congruity. The hip is normal at some time in the development of the mammal, and abnormal development occurs only when stresses pull the components apart.

In the dog, the hip is normal at birth. Intrauterine stresses are not sufficient to produce incongruity of the hip. The first time such forces are great enough is when the pup begins to take its position to nurse.

I encourage you to read this, also.

http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/the-10-most-important-things-to-know-about-canine-hip-dysplasia

Wow Hundmutter ! Lots of info there !

My male Black Russian started showing hip issues at 4 yrs, but like Vita, he was very fit. As he aged, there were times I could see he was a little off, or sore, but he was active and fit until his last 3 mos. He was coming 11yrs when I had to phts. You are right, Hd is a big struggle with the BRT crowd too! Enough that I didn't want to chance another.... HA...so I went with a GSD....

The surgery is called Triple pelvic Osteotomy.They cut the pelvis in 3 places, and change the angle of the sockets, putting a plate in to stabilize. From what I understand the procedure is best for pups under 10 mos, with little damage to the joints. From what I've read, and what the vet says, there is a high success rate.

I guess what I was asking is from what the exrays show...to an experienced eye (besides the vet) could his hips miraculously go to rights again...or do they look pretty messed up ?

I read many many pages doing searches at PDB and saw several people who said their pups hips changed as they aged and they became sound. That is my worry.That I put him through this surgery unnecessarily. My thinking is that I am watching him get worse, rapidly. So I think I;m doing the right thing....but I'm of the school that no question is a dumb question, and there are many that know more than I.

Sunsilvers xray and story helped calm some of that.

As to the breeder...I keep emailing up dates..regardless.I had a good relationship with my Black Russian breeder. This guy seems different from the time we got the pups here. I've kept him updated with pictures, and emails, every month or so since I got them home. He didn't seem much interested, and also never said I was doing anything wrong. I'm keeping him informed none the less. I'm not so stupid to still believe in his health guarantee at this point. He reminds me of that old stray barn cat around my farm. He always slinks off after he empties the food dish I leave him. Good for the barn cat, and good for him.

Drav is my boy now, and my responsibility, and thats that !

Thank you again Hundmutter...you gave me much to mull over !

Joanro.... I am putting my eyeballs back into their sockets as I type. I will read both...Thank you again !!

Hope the information helps you and others to understand what the truth is per hip dysplasia.

Joanro,

Good articles... I read one of them recently in my fanatical reading frenzy for my crash course in hips. Very interesting stuff !

Another question....

The breeder has resurfaced. He said he sent the xrays and video I sent him, onto his vet. It was then recommended that I wait a couple more months, and get another exray. If the condition is the same, the breeder wants "all the basic formalities such as running a DNA test, having a neutral 3rd party Vet to check him one last time just to make sure we are both satisfied with the results." (verbatim)

Is this a usual request from a breeder, in a situation like this ? I am already dealing with 2 vets I don't know ( I have given the breeder their information to consult)...and I have supplied him with pics and reports on Draven since he has come to me.

I am concerned if I wait another "couple Months" the window for the TPO surgery will close...and if the condition is the same, from every quote I can find...the surgery required then, is almost double the cost of the TPO surgery. ($6500) I would not be concerned if I had a money tree, but unfortunately that is very far from my reality. It is a miracle we are able to pay for the TPO surgery.

I do not want to be difficult...but I also do not want go against the 4 vets I have shared Drav's info with. Two vets I trust ..1 for 30 yrs...the other for 18 yrs...and 2 I don't know other than recommendations from GSD breeders.

It has been 3 full months since I first noticed this issue. There as only been a decline in his mobility . He has been on house arrest, food intake reduced, because he started gaining weight,...and he still cannot scratch his own neck. Now he sometimes acts like a quarter horse...planting both hind feet together, and pivoting on them to turn around. I am thinking the torque of that prolly isn't good.

Any opinions as to my proper, reasonable, response would be greatly appreciated. I am sure that I am too emotionally involved, and do not want to be unreasonable.


Thank You again Joanro, for the excellent articles. Although at my age, I think I shall never have to deal with this again...I will keep it in mind !!!

I would not rush to do surgery. No offense, but if those pups are that young, they're way too fat. There is nothing more likely to cause that loosey-goosey movement as much as rapid growth and excess weight during that period. Remember, the cartilage must not be damaged if the joints are to develop correctly. I wouldn't rush to do major surgery on that puppy because he is too young, and fho later if necessary is always a possibility. You cannot undo the surgery!!!

It looks like he was sedated for the films and we are seeing a different view than we are used to. If I had a nickel for every young gsd deemed in need of major surgery when what it needs most is time, diet adjustment, and targeted exercise...

Jenni's post prompted me to go back & take another look at the video clips ...yes, I'd agree, those boys are a little too 'well-covered' (not sure I'd use the expression "way too fat", but they do look heavier than they should be, to be healthy at that age).