Sudden Death 4 year old German Shepherd - Page 2

sunsilver Thank you so much for your post and the information. It is such a heartbreaking problem and I feel that potential owners are often in the dark on the extend of the issue. When you spend thousands of dollars and think you are doing all the right things with research and pedigree only to have your much loved dog die a sudden death and then discover the issue is either not taken seriously or it is ignored it all just adds to the frustration.

Just found the link to the information on the Gracie Initiative doesn't work. There's some important info there on this heart problem, which primarly affects GSDs, so I'd like people to be able to read it.

Let's see if this works: http://thegracieinitiative.com/

Okay, we're good! :D

When you spend thousands of dollars and think you are doing all the right things with research and pedigree only to have your much loved dog die a sudden death and then discover the issue is either not taken seriously or it is ignored it all just adds to the frustration.

ICKW, as the article I posted in the other thread about the dangers of popular sires says, genetic problems like this need to stop being everyone's dirty little secret. Only then will there be a chance of eliminating them, and preventing this sort of heartbreak. Too many breeders 'shoot, shovel and shut up'!

I am so sorry for your loss. I just lost my 2 year old titled KKL show line dog this May at the hands of a vet during a procedure to repair chipped canine teeth. It's heartbreaking and I completely understand. Beyond words. I wish you well. For me, for the reasons you stated, was to get another dog. I just couldn't take the emptiness. These guys have such large personalities and that makes all of this worse.

Thank you sunsilver! I am very distressed by the genetic issue and I have run into the attitudes that say it is no big deal. It seems it is a case similar to what car companies use for acceptable risk. They KNOW they have a problem with a product but the cost to fix the problem is higher than to pay off any complaints if they need to. So they hush up people wherever they can and continue on as if no problem is exists. In the GSD breed the problem is there but since it is easy to tell owner's you are wrong, the vet can't be sure, or it was just a random issue, the as you say 'shoot, shovel and shut up' continues. I LOVE GDS but their future worries me and can I, should I, will I, invest so heavily in a breed that seems to be heading to a viable lifespan that may equate to that of rodent? I hope a breeder can change my worries around and let me have that companion, family, member, friend, and beautiful dog I dream about but 2 sudden deaths in 5 years with completely different lines and pedigrees.....gives me great pause.

GSD911 I am heartbroken to hear about your loss and so tragic that something that should have been relatively simple and safe turned into a horrible situation. I understand the emptiness and you are right the large personalities they possess make it so hard when they are gone.

And really anything can happen at any given time to any breed of dog. Am so sorry for the both of you, it is really heartwrenching to say the least, but I do feel the risk is worth taking to get another shepherd when you are ready. Lots of breeds have heart ailments and conditions and a lot of the time the owners and even breeders are unaware of the conditions lurking. You can heart test and certify everything that there is a test or certification for and still come up with unknowns. Really a sad thing but a fact. And I hope all health clearances keep being procured so that you all can rest easy but I feel it is still some time down the road before that happens.

Hope you can find some comfort with this forum in learning that you are not alone and that this information can help you to heal. Best of luck Nan

As Nan says, anything CAN happen any time. Dogs are a crap-shoot (but that is also true of cats, horses, any pet you care to name) to some extent. I hope I have convinced you that in the UK, at least, more careful breeding practices are largely continuing; but we too have our worshippers of the almighty dollar - well, Pound in our case ! - who think of their pockets and prestige before the health & welfare of their stock or the ultimate effect on their customers. It is refreshing to hear someone in America saying they feel as you do, as all too often the fact that they can breed whatever they like in whatever way they like comes up here on PDB. There is something to be said for lack of regulation and freedom to pursue their ends without restraint or disapproval but as yet I cannot think what that is.LOL

hundmutter I agree that anything can happen at any time but what is distressing is that some of those 'anythings' can be prevented or they can be greatly decreased by breeding practices. There is a lot of resistance to even admitting a genetic link to issues that my dog succumbed to even though there are numerous studies, research, medical journals, and vets to say there is. It is easy to just assume that stuff happens. It is a difficult situation for the buyer and unfortunately the more the buyer learns to ask and actually does ask the more of a pain in the rear they are declared to be and breeders are more likely to give their time to the buyer who has not yet suffered from any genetic issues or one who is willing to throw the dice and take a chance their thousands of dollars will not get them a short lived unhealthy GSD.

Well yes I agree entirely with the idea that many breeders would rather sell to buyers who just take their word for it that they know what they are doing, and not to people who know enough / have experienced problems, and therefore ask far too many questions ! But to my mind, it is going along prepared to ask those questions (and to say No to a puppy if you don't get sensible answers) that will help you sort the decent caring careful breeder from all the also-rans. Much as you and I might rail about all the people (world wide) who do not do what to us seems obvious, in the way of health testing etc, we are not in a position to dictate what and how they breed. Even the SV in Germany do not succeed 100%.
So there will always be some things going wrong, genetically or otherwise, that might have been prevented. An individual enthusiast, or even a group of us banded together in some Club or other structure, are never going to convince every body that there is only one way, our way, the right way, to breed dogs !
But I firmly believe that a really good,caring breeder (who cares about their reputation, as well as their dogs) will always take the time to deal with any questions potential buyers throw at them. If they don't, walk away.
If they tell you they take what you consider too many risks with their stocks health, walk away. That is the only sure way to hedge your bets about losing money. At least you will then have narrowed down financial loss to something that can't have been helped, at the end of the day. It does make it a slow and intensive process to find your dog, of course. But the thing that keeps poor breeding practices going as much as anything is that buyers take on the pups anyway despite their doubts - always makes room to produce another, equally badly !

lckw

Just wanted to say how sorry I am for your loss. A month ago I lost my 11 almost 12 year  old gsd and its been really hard for me. I can only imagine what your going through when your dog appeared perfectly healthy and passed suddenly at four years of age. I always thought my dog was close toperfect when he hit 8 years of age ( well not really perfect but you know what I mean) I know in the near future( 6 months or so) I will get another gsd. I honestly cant imagine my life without a german shepherd. Since I have been a 5 year old child I can only recall two months without having a dog or german shepherd in my life. I too I want to find a reputable solid breeder in the northern california area (but willing to look outside) when I'm ready to get another dog. My mother is from Germany and ( I have traveled to germany many times)and I am considering going to germany to get a dog as well. I am also considering gsd rescue. For now I'm going to go to my local schutzhund club(even though I haven't been a member) I think it will be good for my soul to hang out with shepherds and dog lovers and listen to there advice. My bay area meet up has a gsd walking club and I'm gonna join them even if i dont' have my dog with me.

Again I'm so sorry for your loss.

ickw. I am sorry about your dog. It is horrible to see that happen or to lose a dog in any way.
But even though you may be right that this was genetic there are many other reasons for sudden death. One is parvo is one if it attacks heart. Parvo may attack intestinal lining or heart too.  Such dog may drop dead in young age just like you describe.
I have learned that if you start reading on sicknesses in let say Merck vet manual in order to diagnose sickness of   your sick dog then you will see all sorts of ailments which may fit your dog's sickness profile but are not what makes your dog ill.   I would also listen to bubbabooboo.
As far as breeding dogs go, there are no perfect dogs. I can take any dog and tell you what is wrong with it and make a federal case of it. But the fact is that there are no perfect dogs and you can not eliminate all problems and if you would try that then the only way to do so is by stopping breeding dogs. On top of it to breed some traits out is not that easy or it is not even possible.
Look at hips. People are frantically x raying dogs for decades and only improvement is not factual but it is of statistical nature = most people will not submit bad hips x rays for evaluation. In another words there is basically no improvement in hips nor elbows.
I know that you are angry and want somehow make this better. I would suggest that we just must accept that even over best possible intention and effort we can not control in our life everything. Really older I get more I am realizing that we can not really control anything. Just today I got almost killed on the freeway by 2x4 flying off the truck in front of me. Flying like a javelin it missed my windshield by inches. Life is temporary condition and when we or our dog departs is usually beyond our control. That is what I would want you to learn from your dog. Cherish the years which you have had with your dog and quickly get another one. That is my suggestion to you.