Buying dogs from Europe - Page 2

Remus don't know where you get that u can buy a pup from Romania for 4-500 I just imported a female older than what u say . And I paid a hell of a lot more with pre hips I also received a price list for pup's from 8 weeks up wards and I can tell you that there was not one for 400 the cheapest started off at 1300e the older the dog the bigger the price

Good post Susie !!!

 

I see all that $$$  sleeve dogs  on this forum PP dogs 10-12    months old

asking  sometimes 6000 $  or more and ask myself why I stay here

in  europe  ....In USA I can buy the same Ferrari next year as

Ivan Balbanov if I do my best selling dogs.

 

The market in USA is very very over  hyped and overrrated  for dogs IMO

if I look to the same dogs here in europe.

Yogidog,

I presume you found a puppy miller which, unfortunately, exist here as anywhere else! Or, maybe, they were talking about the shipping price together with the puppy price, I have no idea.
Anyway, I will be happy to help you finding a dog if you wish. I will search the Romanian sites and give you the links. Just tell me what you want. Nevertheless, you'll have to deal directly with the seller regarding formalities and shipping.
But trust my word regarding prices. I have 5 long haired show line German shepherds and I know what I am talking about. I am intending to find an abroad market for my future puppies just because this reason (low price at home).
It is, somehow, quite normal to get higher prices for older dogs! Expenses are getting higher together with time spent in kennel! What I am suggesting, if you are willing to buy an older than 1 year dog (as Susie said also), ask for hips and elbows results. And ask them to be SV agreed (Germany), not Romania or Hungary!
Cheers!

I'm not sure what lines are being discussed but a WL dog from Europe is not that much cheaper than one in the United States. The initial price is less, but after shipping and import duties you're not saving much. Probably not worth the price difference when you think about the issues that can occur and the lack of support moving forward.

In regards to "lines," we might have similar dogs 4-5 generations back, but some of the major stud dogs and world level accomplished males we do not have within the last 2-3 generations. So for trainers/handlers and aspiring stud owners, those dogs are definitely more attractive.

Also, we have a lot of breeders that really aren't producing like they used to. There are many that don't have the ability to title a dog anymore and also realize that their prior reputation will allow them to sell 2-3 untitled litters a year to pet homes. Many use the excuse "I've done it for X long so therefore I know what I'm looking at and don't need a title to tell me what I see" and then a year later you see them selling whatever puppy they held back as an "active pet companion" because the dog can't hold up in any kind of bite work. Many people have watered down their lines a lot and don't know what they're looking at anymore...just look at our nationals, very few American bred dogs at the top. I personally see a lot of trainers trying to find the good working puppies from American breeders and ending up washing them out at fairly high rates, or just not accomplishing the high level work they want to.

Overall though, the classifieds on this site look for that one real sucker. The majority of the US market will not spend more than $2000 on a dog. Those in the "know" would never pay that kind of money for a questionable dog. We know the tricks as well and you're not going to fool us into thinking a dog is better than it really is. The market for green dogs is there but it's small, and there is a lot of competition from abroad and also from a variety of breeders and trainees in the US who do hold back puppies and then sell them.

What I never understand is how people don't do the math and don't realize that a dog is always being sold because of an issue. A female that is sold for $3000-4000 has to have some problems because one litter of puppies will more than cover that price and exceed that amount of revenue. A male dog is also more than likely not going to become that great because otherwise it would make it much more profitable to keep him around.

Remus I already have a supper contact in Romania thanks all the same price I paid for dog was without shipping as my friend was bringing her back with him don't know where you find your low price dog this contact is a very fair price and trust wordy

Yogi, I am happy you have somebody! Less headache for me! 

Regarding prices, lets be accurate. I am talking about show line not working line. I have no idea about prices in that area! But I guess shouldn't be much diferent...

Being in the ''fenomena'', you can figure that I've met, face to face, many of the Romanian breeders. So, I am ''on the source'' as a sort of speak...that's why I am so sure about prices. Agree, if you are finding a litter of a very good VA male, the price will be higher, and it should be this way but, ussually, those litters are never leaving the kennel earlier than 10-12 months. You can imagine the breeder keeping the puppies as long as he can to choose later on what's the best from it!

I am planning this spring a mount with a VA1 in Switzerland. I am so much confident that, if I will have puppies, NONE of them will leave my backyard until I will keep my choices from the litter! No matter how many, depending on quality!

Coming back to prices...have a clue! Search on the net what's the average income in Romania. You will realize than why the prices are where they are!  When somebody from the States or wherever its making a phone call to ask about a pup...guess what will happen in seller's mind!

I really didn´t want to start a debate about importing at all, nor did I want to discuss East European puppy prices -

I just wanted to tell people, that they should THINK and COMPARE prior to buying, and that they shouldn´t believe in all these fancy ads without further investigation.

A lot of newbies believe what they read, simply because they don´t know better.

Remus, nobody is questioning that there are honest breeders in the East European countries, but there are a lot of scam artists, too ( I know, this happens over here,too, but not THAT often ).

It´s easy to see: Untitled bitches without breed survey - most of them got a show rating "around the corner", sometimes even bred way too young, no DNA, and more than often there is no official stud registered from the expensive German stud dog mentioned as sire. This kind of breeding keeps the costs very low... and in case they use "a son of" even lower.

These pups are sold worldwide, because within SV/WUSV they are useless, no keepers for the breeder, but money makers, nothing else. As soon as a 8 weeks old pup of this kind leaves the country, it´s no longer € 400, but € 800 and more in an instant - and the proud owner, who paid for shipping, too, is not aware of the problems arising later on.

Once again, my intention was not to blame any countries, but to make people think about the ads as a whole ( most of the things I mentioned are an international problem, no exclusive problem of East Europe ).

Kind regards

Susie i 100% right. I show dogs for years and ''Remus67'' can you tell me why I don't see any imported dogs from Romania,Hungary ,Poland,Bulgaria and all Eastern European Countries shown and place high in USA at the Sieger or Regional shows never mind in Germany ? I tell you because not many breeders in those countries have top quality females,and if you don't have good female even if you breed to the best dogs in the world you will not get good puppies unless you are lucky to get one or two but the chances are almost none,even if you get them,will you sell them to USA,I don't think so you will keep them for yourself,because you know if the puppy will turn later to be a nice dog will be worth a lot more money and you can also improve your breeding program.Beside the corruption in those countries are normal,beginning from judges,doctors who do x-rays and breeders who switch papers and produce fake information.Secondly the shipment now is about on average $1500.00 per crate.Most those breeders charge you for delivering the dog to Airport ( often $200 or more),health cert.crates.Than you have to take a day off from work to go to the Airport in USA to pick up the dog.Beside you have no "Contract'' no guarantee,you buy the dog as is,even if you get some kind of contract or guarantee if something goes wrong,what will you do,send the dog back,pay shipment again,and do all over again ???? Buying a puppy is a very high risk,many things can go wrong with the pup.I went thru this and I will never do it again.We have some very nice dogs here in USA lots of top German Imports.Some breeders are producing really good puppies,no worse than in Germany and certainly much better then those from the countries I mentioned before. Buying here in USA at least you are getting guarantee,in case something goes wrong with the puppy you can always do something,if you import a puppy you are on your own. Yes they cost more here,but in a long run believe me you are saving money.You have the advantage here to go and see the puppy for yourself ,and if you don't like it you don't have to buy . Imported puppy you have no options,you bought it and you own it.

Old Shat, I'll play Winnetou's role now  and I will totally agree with you regarding possibility to see the kennel, parents, breeder, etc. Again, I will agree that if I will have a good dog I will not sell him (already said that previously). I agree also about pairing best males with worst females but, starting from now, I have to disagree with something. I just said, why NOT to import, IF the imported dog will IMPROVE the rase!? I can't see any reason. Just because of patriotism!? Or ease of formalities!? I'm sorry but, I've just admitted that I will travel 3000km and spend probably 4-5000 Euros to mount one of my female abroad! This is how I believe I will improve the GSD type in Romania (by the way, I have my own male! This is what ''money makers'' would do!). This is how should be done. Otherwise, if I will mount with my own male or else, it will take decades to change something. Regarding Romanian (I don't speak for others) dogs in Germany Sieger, you are wrong. Some of them were shown and the best one classed somewhere over 20th place, I agree, but they've been there! Not many but, again, those were from import litters. I made my point I hope! Regarding showing in States. Are you joking!? I said that with the prices here, we barely cover the expenses with the kennel! And, not meaning to offend, the ''sun'' in GSD rises in Germany! Everybody here is dreaming to that not US!

Remus, once again, it´s not about countries, but about people.
The sun doesn´t rise in Germany exclusively, but wherever a good litter of puppies is born, raised, and trained.