Its been 2 years.. looking for new Shepherd - Page 3

And I would like to add to all of the above on your search; you WILL know when the right puppy/dog comes along. Good luck. Nan

You won't find a pedigree similar to your Alexis with most all.. Mix and match lines with the main focus on strong pigment is where the east line has been going for some time now.

Breeding Notes:

The second breeding has dogs that have bloated or litter mates in the line that have died or have bloated. Its not a Eastline breeding if thats of interest to you. I can't recall off hand but Aron may have bloated and survived at least twice maybe a third. You can work around many things bloat is not one, and can take a while to rear its ugly head.

V Don vom Haus Iris has been showing up quite a bit in 3-5 generation of line breeding with dogs that have HD and or ED so caution with him.

The first breeding Porsche is line bred on is Sven 4-3. Lord is from Sindy. The SV banned breeding Sven/Sindy. just a note draw your own conclusion. Lord has some nice back massing starting in the 6 generation. Its getting harder and harder to find pedigrees where a DDR dog is not found until back 5-6 or plus more.

I thought Aron lived to a decent age? At least 10, I think? That seems unlikely if he bloated "two or three times" -- do you know how old he was when he died and what he died of?

My observations have generally been that Don vh Iris tended to be a source of good joints in a pedigree. It becomes quite hard to quantify the effect of a dog in the pedigree once he is 3 or 4 or 5 generaitons back in a pedigree, of course, and as always, it definitely depends on the dogs in between. For example, Fero through Aly is a huge hip improver. Fero through other of his sons is less so. What Don progeny are you wary of in a pedigree?

I've heard it said many times that the Sven x Sindy combo was forbidden, yet it was done 3 times (Sindy was bred to Aron, Sven x3, Cent x2, Lump, and Queick--which is a lot of breedings for a bitch). A couple of years ago, I asked a German friend to email the SV about this issue, and she couldn't get any confirmation about the breeding being forbidden. If the problem was joints, then I would expect the severity of problems to show up in the HD-ZW scores of the dogs from the Sven x Sindy breedings. (A search on the SV site shows ZW scores between 79 and 95 for most of the progeny from the Sven x Sindy litters.)

Also, I don't understand what you mean by this, "Its getting harder and harder to find pedigrees where a DDR dog is not found until back 5-6 or plus more." Can you clarify?

Christine

No I don't know Aron's specifc age at death around ten sounds about right. He bloated, progeny bloated, they are off my grid, I don't want them in my lines, just me.

Look at the list of HD/ED produced by the SV the reports can be purchased from them. My observation is that I'm seeing a lot of bad hips and elbows that have a line bred on Don Iris in the 3-5 generations. Lots of soup there... agreed, but thats the trend I see. Sven, Lissy Haus Iris & Don line breedings together appear to be something to avoid big time, I see the names together quite a bit with HD/ED.

Sven/Sindy "yet it was done three times" That makes sense that you would ban after the breedings not prior to.... not knowing what they could produce until they produced the problems ;)~ . I think Jaques site and DDR legends have had proof up and still may have some info posted. Search this site with regards to the ZW scores there was a good thought produced by Daryl E I believe regarding the scores. It was also not just hips though. Mainly, I feel no need to second guess the boots on the ground that banned it in the first place. They saw, they didn't like, they didn't want the combo any more... thats good for me.

Most of the pedigrees for the East line being bred today don't have DDR dogs in the first 4 generations many unseen until 5-7 generations back. A DDR registered dog. Unless back massing quite a bit the progeny don't even resemble the type in most cases. We should be calling this East line rather then DDR breedings especially when type is not even present 4-5-6 generations back. Comments are in general & not specifically related to pedigrees or dogs posted above.










 

Well, yeah. The DDR ended in 1989. Time flows on. :/

My experience and observations have been that Sven was a very good hip producer. My import litter that was 2-4(4) on Sven(Nonne) out of an A2 bitch had OFA excellents and OFA goods (and several dogs who were never bred who were x-rayed clear but never rated).

Christine

Gigante - I never heard about a "forbidden breeding" within SV because of the results ( puppies ) of said breeding.
Sven is ZW 87, Sindy is 92, that said, the officially rated offspring can´t have been that bad ( and SV only gets the official ratings ).
Really, never heard about something like this ?!?

I have never seen any proof that Sven/Sindy was actually forbidden, either. That seems to have been a rumor started way back and just passed on as fact. I have, however, seen plenty of evidence that it was a pretty awful pairing. My experience with Sven is like Christine stated, however- anything I've had out of Sven has had nice hips, personally.

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Please no comments from peanut gallery!
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Take care. Best of luck on your search.

Susie its pretty common knowledge to everyone who is familiar with the east line. if you have evidence that it is not true please post that. Search this site its been said on this PDB many times, search you missed it, although thats not where I have heard this. This is not breaking news by any means, google it, but I don't think your familiar at all with the DDR dogs.

If you bred on Sven it was Sindy, if Sindy it was Sven if you bred on the combo it never happened. I have no stock in either and don't really care. It's common enough knowledge to have some resonance. I have read from & spoken with some with first hand knowledge of the problems that pairing produced. We are not at such a bottleneck that its worth risking for me with such common ok dogs. Pigment ala caca aside. With regards to Sven If you look at his standing with the other east dogs in the top hip producers, Ho hum its on the lower side compared to most or the other East line dogs, while decent, Olf was better Muchta was better Alf was better many more.... much better ;) That pairing was a problem. Line bred on and mixed with other problem dogs Its showing its head once again today.

"... if you have evidence that it is not true please post that. "

Gigante, that´s the wrong direction of thinking. To be sure about this matter you need proof that this breeding was forbidden -
as long as you are not convicted, you are innocent.

We already have proof that it was allowed 3 times
both dogs are bred and born within SV rules
both dogs met the SV rules prior to breeding

I am not able to find any rule that is able to forbid this breeding within SV.
Although we are the inventors of rules, every breeder decides about his breedings by himself, never SV.

Breeding requirements for "pink papered puppies":
Pedigreed parents
Titled parents ( show title, BH, IPO or adequate, AD )
Breed surveyed parents
HD ( and now ED ) tested parents
DNA
Male 24 months, female 20 months old
ZW of the litter : sire + dam / 2 = lower than 100
no linebreeding closer than 2/3 ( now 3/3 )

In case a 4. breeding really was "forbidden" I am not able to see the reason why.
Did one of the parents not fulfill the rules any longer out of any reason?
I doubt it, beause both parents were used later on with different partners, they were not banned from breeding.

For me it´s a theoretical question only, I am not involved in these dogs or lines at all -
and I am really curious, because I never heard about a case like that.

Kind regards