IPO 2050 .. What Must Change ..Tracking - Page 12

and still those that don't have such an opinion of those that do.  LOL

and for the umpeenth time, you wouldn't differentiate yourself from those that do IPO everytime you post if you actually did any of it.I surmise you read a lot and have seen a few things and like to tell everyone all you know LOL

So please, take the deal :)  take all the members, laugh at "our" demise when it happens as it's obvious you want no part of it now other than to, how do you put it, "channel your spite".  So please, come back and laugh and tell us you told us so when our sports go away, until then, please STFU :)

@zdog, feel free to counter my estimates with how much SPACE you would need to lay an IPO compliant track?  How many people in your club train for tracking all at once, as a group?  Whats a typical day of group tracking like for you?  I've given you my observations and possible solutions, where are yours?

Feel free to elaborate with details, I am waiting and I'm always open to learning something new.  So go ahead and share your wisdom about how to train for tracking with limited space (less than a football field and noncontiguous vegetation).  I have mentioned HITT in the past, what other recommendations do you have?

I do both venues in tracking and have titled in both, I know the differences first hand.  To clarify, the reason I differentiate myself with IPO folks is simply because I currently have a dog that had to get a scorebook through non-traditional means.  I went to all the Schutzhund clubs FIRST and got nothing but the runaround.  My money, nor my dog were sufficient to begin a conversation about how to proceed with a simple PAPERWORK issue.  SO, I had to go to an AWDF club to get it, so techincally I'm a AWDF member, not a USCA or WDA IPO member.  So it should be pretty obvious WHY I do not currently lump myself into the IPO crowd.  They couldn't even guide me through a simple clerical issue and I'm supposed to trust their opinion in other aspects of the sport after that?  I certainly admit to needing their trials, but I don't need their clubs at this time.  Yes, I do read all the rules too, sorry those facts upset you, when I point them out in ways and using terms you don't LIKE to hear.  Most here only know the IPO tracking, so I still don't get why you feel the need to try and discredit my detailed explanations with simple minded rants and cat-calls.

I mentioned HITT as well, and I train for tracking with much less than a football field, i never train a "proper" ipo track, ever and yet I still have never failed a track :)  I proably do 70% of my tracking in my backyard, by the time i'm out doing any sizeable tracks the behavior is there and the dog is doing what it can do in a manner that I want it to.  I'm not here to give a tracking seminar on a message board, but I can promise I have no problems finding places to track other than when I don't really want to go tracking and need to make some excuses.

I don't really try and discredit you as much as I find your "detailed explanations" to be little more than detailed and time consuming rants and excuses to try and discredit something you don't care for as much as you'd like to try and convince us otherwise.  I give you simple minded stuff because i don't care to give you more of my time :)  
 

If I actually thought you were sincere in anything you claim I'd probably try and help you.  But I don't, I think you're here on these topics to tell us all how IPO sucks again and that biting dogs are bad :)  But go ahead, write another paragraph trying to convince us you're not.

i never train a "proper" ipo track, ever and yet I still have never failed a track

-zdog

I assume that includes the FH, RIGHT?  Please feel free to clarify.  You haven't failed because you aren't training for "tracking" you're training for "foot trailing obedience"  Its no different than when some very smart AKC dogs can run the whole UD without the owner in the ring, your dogs are possibly counting "steps" and "turns" in the track, all "cues" and no "scent work"

@zdog, DO NOT, EVER AGAIN, TRY TO MISCONSTRUE MY POSITION ABOUT IPO AS A SPORT. 

I am NOT someone who thinks bitting dogs are bad, NOR do I think the sport should discontinued.  I have NEVER insinuated such and you are a liar to try and twist my words.  I have noted that I have activities which PROHIBIT, me personally, from doing bitework, HOWEVER, that is not the same as saying, IN YOUR WORDS, "IPO sucks again and that biting dogs are bad".  Currently its about IPO clubs ATTITUDES SUCKING, that's for sure, but that's got nothing to do with bitework.  I come from a family that was breeding dogs 30 years ago for Schutzhund, I know the sport and have a genuine wish for it to continue and as I have said before ALL of the OTHER forgotten Breed Survey Level events that get pushed into the shadows by many Schutzhund clubs, both USCA and WDA.  Its about the way IPO clubs are RUN TODAY from an organizational level and on cultural level that is destroying interest from new curious people. 

Every time you tell a lie on this forum or try to mis-characterize my position I will counter the your posts, period!

you will do what you do best i'm sure. :)

I'm sure my dogs just pass because they count steps and turns because of the fact i never train an ipo track, that's how they pass?? You're too flipping funny LOL

and now that we have your position on IPO out of the way, and since it's just about ipo attitudes sucking, why don't you leave the sport alone and quit telling everyone what is so wrong with it if it's just the clubs attitude?  quit with the excuses of why people can't train for it, because it's not about land, we can all find land to track if we really want to.  It's about attitude and we can see your's sucks and that's why you make up paragraph after paragraph of excuses on why you simply cannot track for IPO :)

If you put half as much effort into tracking rather than excuses you'd probably have titles by now :)
 

you make up paragraph after paragraph of excuses on why you simply cannot track for IPO

@zdog, I thought we clarified this already, I have FH tracking titles.  Do you consider them lesser than the compartmentalized IPO 1-3 tracking phases?  I assume and believe that you have done the FPr/tr 1-3 equivilant, have you attempted the FH ever?

AWDF clubs are in fact starting to pick up the slack with the other less offered FCI titles, so in time, I'm sure I won't need to go to WDA or USCA trials all that often to compete as I do now.

anyway, as for misconstruing, I hardly did.  You take plenty of opportunity to steer people away from IPO, talk about how bad it is, how it's always about biting and nobody knows anything and clubs suck and titles are meaningless blah, blah, blah.  Besides that, the rest consists of wanting some obscure rule clarified for something you probably have no intention of competing in anyway just so you can again take the opportunity to try and put down a group of people.  It's funny you don't think people can see thru that LOL

@zdog, I thought we clarified this already, I have FH tracking titles.  Do you consider them lesser than the compartmentalized IPO 1-3 tracking phases?  I assume and believe that you have done the FPr/Tr 1-3 equivilant, have you attempted the FH ever?

ANSWER THE QUESTION!

This is a web forum and I am a hobby dog trainer, asking questions from a smart phone in my spare moments.  I assume you guys know the rules.  Sometimes I get answers here, but I cross post on other boards, so eventually I get the answers I'm looking for despite the resistance from a few here.  If the rules were more transparent and clear, I wouldn't need to be asking about things you call "obscure".  Its not my fault you aren't that fully familiar with the rules of the sport you hold so dear.  If you had a question about an obscure AKC rule, I could probably answer it, you should be able to do the same for FCI rules that overlap with IPO.  I certainly don't get those clarifications from you, so our adversarial conversations don't detract from my purpose for posting here fairly often. You can't get an ego boost from a virtual discussion, if you do you are an idiot.  Please find and quote where I said "titles are meaningless blah, blah, blah".  If I and others are earning them, they must have some value.  But I do admit to doing some IPO club bashing here, people like you bring the bashing on yourselves and then in turn make a bad name for the rest.  Its funny our AKC club let IPO people come and work on OUR permit, that they don't pay for, because DEMAND is not being met in the area by existing IPO clubs and THEN people like zdog call "poopoo" on my perspective of the OVERALL situation occurring. 

HILARIOUS!

I congratulate you zdog for having successfully detracted from my original point based on my personal, LOCAL, observations. Within the continental United States "tracking" per IPO rules IS getting more and more difficult to practice and prepare for.  Not just logistically or physically, but LEGALLY.  In MANY, MANY counties and cities across the United States it is ILLEGAL to have a dog outside of a fenced private property on leashes that are more than 6ft.

you do like hearing yourself talk don't you.  How exactly do I bring the bashing on an entire sport?  I think it's obvious to see why you might have some troubles with the clubs around you.  you never miss a chance to act like your'e on the high road, yet take a jab or attack any chance you get.  I bet your'e a real treat to be around LOL.

Keep making excuses for people like you and others, it's what you do very well.  Oh wait, let me take a page from your book.  It's something you do VERY, VERY well :)  I find it funny you could find tracking to do and FH, yet can't find tracking grounds to do an IPO 1 LOL.  and my dogs learn to count steps though I never do an IPO track except at a trial LOL  

Okay zdog, its seems we are back to the reading comprehension issue again. 

-First, I said, that I have access to places to train for long tracks because of my AKC club affiliation which has preexisting permits and official permission to access the sites. 

-The second issue I identified was that OTHER people in the region, where I live, have trouble finding places to do long tracks because of local ordinances, cops threatening people with 6ft leash tickets and uncooperative private property owners, REGARDLESS of whether they belong to other AKC clubs, USCA, WDA or something else. 

These two above noted issues are NOT mutually exclusive, both can exist at the same time!  I thought I made it very clear that I'm not training for IPO1-3 tracks, but people whom are, currently have trouble finding a suitable training site, within my region of the United States and are asking to join our group to GAIN ACCESS to these sites.  We have plenty of room to train for the FH and AKC length track, but we pay for a permit and have official written permission to use the grounds.  THE OTHER FOLKS ASKING TO JOIN US, DO NOT HAVE THIS LUXURY, NOR WERE THEIR RESPECTIVE CLUBS WILLING TO PUT FOURTH THE EFFORT AND PAY THE PERMIT FEES WHEN REQUIRED.  I can't be anymore clear about this, you need to start reading, comprehending what you have read and just generally paying more attention to the discussion topics.

You also still have not answered my question.  Do you currently or in the past have you attempted to take the FH 1-3?  Its a simple yes or no.  Do you consider them lesser than the compartmentalized IPO 1-3 tracking phases? Its a simple yes or no.  For the record, the longest track in an IPO title is at least 609 meters, is aged one hour and has NO CROSS TRACKS!  Do you train for cross tracks because you don't need to in the FPr/Tr 1-3? 

In contrast, the TDX is about 731 meters is aged three to five hours and HAS A CROSS TRACK.  You seem to keep insinuating that the skills needed for dog to pass the IPO3, 600 meter track, is the same as the TDX of FH.  So obviously this must mean your dogs are used to tracks aged for more than an hour, with cross tracks running through them.  A simple acknowledgement of having done so, by you, will suffice here.

Remember, I'm not questioning your overall TRAINING ABILITY or overall experience, I am asking if you have SPECIFICALLY tried to title in the FH or similar (note, the IPO 1-3 is NOT similar).  If you have fine, we are talking on the same level; if you have NOT, you've got no business trying to explain how they are the same.  At this point I don't even care if you have titled in the FH, I just want to know if you have even tried it, ONCE.  However, based on your comments and lack of response, I'm going to assume you have not and that you likley have never trained a dog for something like the FH.