another video - Page 2

Mose you ask some really great questions. It's nice to see these training methods discussed on here, to clear "things" up. Even most Schutzhund people don't understand what is being done here with these methods. Police K-9's and Real PP dogs are trained very different than a sport dog. I'm not a trainer so I wont try to explain unless no one else gives it a shot. I'm glad grimmdog spoke up and I am sure someone else will later as well. I watched a few dogs worked on the table today and it is not negative. Flanking a dog isn't much different than doing a pain tolarence test on a puppies foot. IMO anyway. A dog I saw months ago I didn't think was going to cut the mustard, was brought to life on the table and now does pretty well in the bitework. The video you posted Moseman, shows the dog was confortable on the table and the decoy was getting a great reaction out of him. Some dogs are very uncomfortable on the table at first but they are hardly strong dogs to begin with. The dog I was speaking of was like this. Now on the table he is comfortable and on the ground he is much stronger.

4pack, You touch on some very good points....

There is another element to table/deck training. You are elevating the dog and bringing it closer to the helpers face. This close eye contact is a little harder for the dog to handle and when it's successful it really boosts the dogs confidence. I like the deck better because of the stability and manuverability. Additionally, you can work more than one dog at a time. Grimm, you obviously participate in Schutzhund or police work; are you a helper/agitator?

Yeah I really didnt see anything negative in that video which was making me wonder why people talk bad on it so much. I myself have no intentions for anything other than sport. I can understand how this could be very important for a real police or military dog, to prepare the dog for the pressure brought upon by the job. What exactly is the difference between the bad table training and the table training seen in the video above? I think grimmdog so far has said that the dog has more room to play with, no bite work. Does the bad table training usually involve striking the dog with some sort of object?

I am a helper for O.G. Indianapolis Schutzhund und Polizei and the primary helper for the current Schutzhund USA National Champion, Basco Slovanskeho domu. I also work closely with Mike Diehl in training police dogs. I am the one you will see in most of Mike's videos. In the video in question, I handled the dog, Hugo. http://www.diehlspolicek9training.com and http://www.sportwaffenk9.com

spook101, the earlier response was for you. Mosemancr, I have heard of people striking the dog or paining the dog. The main idea is that the dog is restrained short and left with little room to move, and pressed very close, to where the dog might want to show flight. It can't exhibit flight, so it then chooses fight to defend itself. I completely DISAGREE with this type of training and believe it would wreck and cause problems with a lot of dogs. I also believe it borders dangerously on animal abuse. I in no way condone that type of training. If you watch the video being discussed, you will see nothing of that sort. The dog is happy, and wagging it's tail, and confident.

spook101, the earlier response was for you. Mosemancr, I have heard of people striking the dog or paining the dog. The main idea is that the dog is restrained short and left with little room to move, and pressed very close, to where the dog might want to show flight. It can't exhibit flight, so it then chooses fight to defend itself. I completely DISAGREE with this type of training and believe it would wreck and cause problems with a lot of dogs. I also believe it borders dangerously on animal abuse. I in no way condone that type of training. If you watch the video being discussed, you will see nothing of that sort. The dog is happy, and wagging it's tail, and confident.

People talk bad about what they don't know or understand. Sure you probably have some people missusing the table but you have people who abuse allot of things. It doesn't make the method wrong but the idiot doing it wrong.

4pack, Absolutely!! Consider that there are countries where items such as prong or e-collars are illegal. Not a fine, illegal as in go to jail! Wow...Interpretation and applied use thereof. This training method, like any other in wrong hands, can be done wrong. But done right it can be an effective tool.

I learned a lot from this. The video doesnt look bad, but to be honest, I sided more on it being bad just from what Ive heard mostly from Ed Frawley. The video doesnt show anything negative, and overall seems at least nuetral if not positive. Like I said, I have no intentions of doing this training, but I am glad to have finally gotten another perspective on this. So, I guess it could be said that, "not all table training is bad" instead of "ALL table training is BAD" as per Ed Frawley.