The Evolution Of The Topline In The GSD - Page 3

One last point about short, iron backs.  If a zuchschau GSD has a short, iron back, it better be balanced in range of motions between the front and rear assemblies (that is front reach and extension must be equivalent to rear reach and extension).  If not there is not excessive back length to stabilize and compensate for this imbalance and the handler must make sure the GSD pulls hard on the lead to cover this up.  That's why SV judges insist on the GSDs gait off lead for evaluation.

If one ever has the rare privilege to see a well angulated GSD at both ends with a short iron back and correctly angled croup of proper length and a correct wither (which helps smooth out the front ends action) gaiting loose lead or off lead, it is an amazing thing.  Add true suspension to this and you see poetry in motion. And the GSD can do this all day without tiring much, because there is no wasted motion and little enegry extended compensating for an imbalance between the front and the rear.  Of course if the rear doesn't have the range of motion of the front, then the GSD will have a "hitch" in the rear that looks like unilateral HD in many cases or has to roll up in the loin (rump-roll) to compensate, each of which takes energy and reduces the endurance and working ability of the GSD.  This is whty we have the FCI/SV standard which is really very good. Now if it was just enforced and used more by all, breeders, buyers and judges alike.

Speaknow, yes that is correct.  The increased weight at the front end due to the increased leverage it applies on the rear helps to direct the propulsion level rather than just upward. It better harnesses the rear drive, but at a great loss of efficiency and endurance.  Some American Shepherds move beautifully and suspend 100% for short periods of time, with only a few able to do it all day (these are the shorter backed dogs).

Even in a GSD without a steep croup (ie normally sloping), the croup does direct propulsion upward a bit to cause a tendency towrds full suspension during a very brief time during the gait.  This has been proven in slow motion photos.

If the croup is too gflat ior the back is too arched, the rear propulsion force can be directed to push the front down, causing a falling in the front during gaiting.  This is very visible in slo mo and why roachiness can serious impair gaiting.

Once you see a GSD who is built correctly move, it is a breathtaking site.  The GSD does not need to be heavily angulated, but blanace is the key here and the coordinated vectoring of all angles and ranges of motions.  This is very hard to get and is highly preferred when it occurs loose lead or off lead.  If anyone doubts this just ask yourself why Kirshental Kennels has always bred for correct, balanced, powerful sidegait for their sheepherding GSDs which are proven working animals? Because sound gaiting makes a better working GSD holding all other things equivalent. 

Preston, is this an example of what you'd call 'rump rollup'?

I've been trying to figure out just exactly what is wrong with this dog's structure. I know the tight leash is making his faults appear worse, by increasing the roach. He doesn't really look all that badly roached when stacked.

Sunsiler, could be, but as you stated the tight lead and a very motivated GSD can cause this temporarily.  But the dog has an apparent break or arch in the middle of his back and this is what rump rollup looks like on a loose lead or off lead.  It is obvious the dog's croup in the actual first photo is far too steep to direct propulsion at the proper forward vectoring (too much upward) and this coupled with an upward arc in the back, can cause the front to be forced down ward.  Its like rolling steel balls down a straight channel, the roll straight compared to rolling steel balls down a C shaped channel where they roll in an arc rather than a straight line.

There is a second issue here that is relevant to discussion.  That is the break point or top of the apparent arch in the GSDs back in the photos (more easily visible in the first photo). I have seen this in young dogs wgere it went away with maturity, and some where it didn't.  It appears to be a genetically based weakness at the mid or toppoint of the arch, but only flexes upward, not downward.  I hypothesize it is a vertebral defect with perhaps a ligamentation problem too, but I don't know for certain what it is.

I love these kind of discussions because we are getting into trade secrets that are very hard to get from others and usually must be figured out on one's own or taught by a breeder or exhibitor with at least 20-25 years experience.  It took me 30 years to understand most of the movement technology.  This information is tremendously valid to those who cannot get it other than through sharing.

I have been amazed occasionally in the past to see an individual working line GSD with only moderate angles, moderate croup, short straiight back outmove a highly angulated GSD with sickle hocks and rump rollup, and be able to do this all day long (true poetry in motion like a well oiled, smooth running, powerful machine. It always comes down to the individual GSD, I don't care what the genetics are or the bloodlines.

In my opinion, the world's top expert on the movement in the German Shepherd Dog is without questiion Ricardo Carbajal of Del Cono Sur Kennels. He is the author of the famous "German Shepherd Dog" video series. This set of videos is essential for anyone who wants to understand proper GSD construction, conformation, movement and faults in such. I am not friends with this man, don't know him, get no incentive for sales, etc.  I have viewed his videos a number of times and find the knowledge they contain essential for novices.  I don't know if they are still available or not.  I know some GSD clubs have bought them in the past to share amoung members. And I might add quite a few judges need to watch these many times and really pay attention, hopefully memorizing the concepts properly and then following them, because they are based on the FCI standard.

In my view one of the greatest, most dynamic and correct GSD movers in the showring was British Champion Muscava's Rocky.  He was an unbelievable athlete and could go all day with complete balance. One impressive dog.

Now let's take a look at a dog from lines with a fair number of arch backs (ranging from mild to moderate).  This particular dog I will refer to here as very nice in the back construction and croup angle is  V1 Shotaan Alfons,  which has much construction-wise which is praiseworthy.  Note his straight back, nice angles at both ends, proper shoulder layback and upper arm angle and length, very nice croup, nice male type.  I have no idea what this GSD can produce, but as a specimen he is worthy of notice and is the type we should be promoting and breeding for. A GSD that is built this well does not appear very often.

I am really enjoying this thread! Nice short back on that dog, almost level too, Good shoulder angle and upper arm. Wouldn't mind seeing a bit more muscle in the thigh, though.

Gee, an Ursus grandson...no surprise there!  (Gives her Ursus granddaughter a pat on the head...)

Never fails to amaze me how you can see the Ursus 'stamp' , even in the second and sometimes the third generation...here's my bitch, at a year of age for comparison.  Although she's got a longer back, I think you can stil see a strong resemblance, especially in the topline and shoulder.