How do you price you working line puppies? - Page 8

Sounds like avoidance to me. Just like someone’s bitch that was just too weak and too soft to go to the blind during a recent regional event. But then if you have any real courage, take me up on my offer, unless you are simply afraid.

"It is odd that you mentioned Gary, wallace, and Ivan, all of these people have purchased and handled titled dogs from Europe." 1st of all i Wallace's dogis HOT, Ivan has made his name of the OT Vitosha dogs which are HOT, and gary has titled coutnless dogs from nothing. they havemay have shown dogs that where titled in europe. but most importantly, they have trained, trialed, and failed. just like me and everyone else who actually tries. we all know how hard it is to raise a dog up, how to make correct heeling and would never put someone else down to make ourselves bigger. and i have no problem takng critisism from them or anyone else who as actually titled or worked a dog. what i have a problem w/ is those that sit on the outside of the fence while someone else works their dog. while there is nothing wrong w/ owning a dog that someone else is working, only trying to pass yourself off as trainer. (i get the feeling you fall into this catagory) my male came w/ a BH, and i did the titles, which explaines the low score, my retired female came w/ ablsolutly nothing (which is not uncommon for a 12 wk old puppy) but i was able to fumble my way to a sch 3 w/ her. and I would love to know your name, see your dogs work, from the sound of it you may be one of those folks who breeds dogs w/ paper titles, which IMO is just as bad if not worse than the backyard breeder. 'Cuz you convince some poor bastard you dogs are worh $1500+ you see dogford, you most likely have some one title you dogs to show that they are breed worthy so you can sell puppies at $1500 a pop. I have no interest in breedingor selling puppies, i like the sport, i like the competition. So like ive said several times, i bred for me, there are a lot of folk who only know a good dog by looking at its pedigree and score book. So i promise you, you are doing much more damage to the breed by breeding titled sh*t, than i am, breeding a dog that is not titled. hell if you hell bent on saving the breed from me why dont you give your puppies away. that is what i planned. So while you prefer to tell everyone else how good your dogs is and point to a SCh titled earned in your backyard, i prefer to just show people. and ive always just shown people, this is me, the good, the bad and the ugly. ive done good training and ive done sh*t training, but ive always tried. CAN YOU DO THE SAME? so if the breed is left to people like you, we're pretty much F*CKED

OK, im gonna back up a second, here was my point seriously. IMO the value of a schutzhund title is less than it was 10 yrs ago. there are dogs w/ purchased titles and dogs that can only get a title on their home field. and w/ it being easier to get titles on lower quality dogs and being able to pruchase dogs w/ fake titles it is difficult for someone who is brand new to the sport to tell the difference. how can you tell the difference between a breeder that has dogs that truely earned thier titels and someone who has less than quaity dogs. you can no longer count a title. So i had seveeral point. 1 i am not a breeder, but if i was id like to either work the dog or see video. its very very easy to post video. 2. i post video of the female i have, if you dont agree w/ my assesment then fine, but youre not relying on a title and a few words on a website. thre are too many "breeders" w/ KKL and titled dogs that wont show there dogs working. 3. given a choice between a titled dog i can see, or have the word of someone i trust, and a dog that ive seen, worked and know. ill take the dog i know provided it offers what i want. Babe mention that she will go a see a potential stud. and i would hope if it came down to a sch1 and a sch3 but the SCh1 was far superior she would choose the sch1. in a nut shell, the days of the most experienced and ethical breeders having titled dogs are over, the days of a sch titled meaning a dog is breed worthy are over. and folks need to take it one extra step. as for my breeding, my goal is not to mass produce puppies my goal is to see if i can produce a puppy as close to my male as possible. because i am a better trainer tham iwas when i got him and he offera almost everthing i want. To be honest w/ you im not a big fan of puppies, i prefer young dogs, but my wife and i have a 5 mo.old daughter and i figure by time the puppy is 12 mo. my daughter wont require as much attention and i can get back out to dog club. or if the puppy doesnt work out, get a young dog. Surely there has to be a valid point somewhere in here

Wow, guys what a lot of hot air we are spreading, are we still entertaining the issue title or no title on the GSD.You are all just showing of who can hold out longer.Well let me tell you something, none of you are right, you all are doing it out of dislike of your own failure in what ever you tried to accomplish.Other then that why is it affecting you so much that you have to take it to the highes level of disgust.Read my input and digest it am I wrong let me know you there is so opinionated about this breeding with or without the T.

excuse me but is this the same C. Wilkins that I recently heard the joke about? It would appear that he bought a black Czech border patrol dog and then trained with a judge/trainer over the summer/fall/winter of 2004 and then went to DutchEast Schutzhund Club March 2005 and titled the dog under the same judge (his trainer) and then claimed the dog was HOT. now this same guy is suppose to be attacking everyone under a dozen different identities on here. You call that credibility? You guys are really FUNNY. I can't wait to hear more. This is like comic central. The guys I work with would LOVE you all. Don

Walter, at least your training. The one thing that bothers me is you seem to be justifying you breedings by saying titles don't mean anything. Then why are you advertising your bitch as almost ready to be titled? I think you're overexagerating the ease of getting a title. I know there are people that cheat, but for the most part they are a small number. I know you said you were letting the bitch in the film get away with things because you weren't serious at the time, but why would you let her be set back by poor training. You just have to work harder to correct it next time. Inconsistency will destroy a program. Lastly, and you can just blow this off if you want, but teaching the hold and bark and a solid out seem like they are a whole lot easier when done on a pole rather than having the handler hold the line in most cases. Additionally, when your dog is barking strong and you're training for stability, I'm wondering if less misses wouldn't be in order. Just thoughts from a stupid old fart.

WSCOTT Yes when I fly to Germany to breed my females I am in direct contact with the studs owner by testing the Ruede in Echte Papiere on his Title and formost his Koerung fuer Lebenzeit(Breeding for Life)Since I am German and as I told you may father is known from his Kennel and has connections so it is much easier for me to trust,they would not dare to play one over me by advertising there Ruede to be the best for my act of improving my females prodigy if that is not represented they know I will take action and ruining there reputation. In the States there are to many breeders there breed without KKL approval and yes that brings down the GSD quality in all ways possible.And then there are breeders there have SCHH but there GSD's are not what they promoting and they get away with it because the person there buys there pups are not aware and do not know about the shepherd they are being told from the breeder what they should do and not do. See they trust the breeder. I know one breeder she is that type and she has fooled a lot of her so called clients.I have told her one of these days she will have to answere her methods.Give me feedback if so desired. Greetings von Charlotte

spook101, completely agree with you.

Babe, How many breeders, in the USA, do you think know what the kormeister is or what purpose they serve? Just putting two good lines together is nothing. The breeding should always be done to improve the breed lines. Breeding because, "I just wanted a puppy for the kids" or "I wanted another one just like old Shep" is sorry. Leave breeding to true professionals.

Spook101, my point isnt that title dont mean anything rather ive seen many dogs w/ titles that didnt earn them, dogs w. titles that were basically purchased in europe. and because of this i do not titles do not hold as much validity as they once did. I understand how much work it takes to get a title, ive title 2 dogs 1-3 and its a lot of work. but again ive seen dogs that have failed several times because they would not engage, just to earn the title onthe 4th try. This very same dog is now sch1 and producing puppies. As far as the bitch in the film, we really werent training, more less just letting her have fun. But when i teach the hold and bark i dont use a pole, i hold the line. when I teach the out i will use a pole. and yes when we start really working on the barking there will be less misses. i truly do see what your saying an appreciate the way it was posed. Id like to know the following, Are there different levels of titles, is a sch3 w/ 240 on a home field worth the same as a 268 at national? it seems to me if you're gonna say a title is good PERIOD, you have to be willing to accept the lowest acceptable score. Babe wrote "And then there are breeders there have SCHH but there GSD's are not what they promoting and they get away with it because the person there buys there pups are not aware and do not know about the shepherd they are being told from the breeder what they should do and not do. See they trust the breeder. " this my point in a nut shell, you have to take the breedes word for it, rather than seeign the dog in person or video. for me i will only trust the word of someone i know. Im not anti-title rathe pro choice. And i will leave the breeding, rather the production, marketing, selling and profiting off of puppies to professionals. simply because i have no desire to breed for profit and its their profession. hey, we all gotta eat.