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by darylehret on 17 March 2012 - 19:03
A handler hard dog in my opinion doesn,t mean a strong dog either.
I completely agree. Do you think that's what Jeff is really refering to though?
by Bob McKown on 17 March 2012 - 20:03
I don,t know, We all have our own idea,s of what makes a dog Hard or Real (another over used term) All we can do is give each other credit where credit is due and strive for our goals.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 17 March 2012 - 20:03
How many times were the dogs in those videos bred though ? For a while there, I saw a lot of Javier pups around 10 months of age for sale.
What was this thread about again ?
What was this thread about again ?
by Bob McKown on 17 March 2012 - 22:03
There was nothing on any video,s posted here or on the net that would qualify your statement that a women could not handle a serious dog. I have seen no seriuos dogs on the video I,m not saying there not in training or off the camera.
So I,d say No, female handlers don,t weaken the breed the sport it,s self does.
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How many times were the dogs in those videos bred though ?
So I have to ask then What does this statement have to do with the thread.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 17 March 2012 - 22:03
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Where were the serious dogs ? Yoschy is not what I would call a serious dog. Seriously well trained dog, but he was a strong prey dog. The other two videos showing Sch dogs are not serious dogs either.
I am not trying to change your opinion, but I stick to mine. It was quite a telling thread.
| There was nothing on any video,s posted here or on the net that would qualify your statement that a women could not handle a serious dog. |
Where were the serious dogs ? Yoschy is not what I would call a serious dog. Seriously well trained dog, but he was a strong prey dog. The other two videos showing Sch dogs are not serious dogs either.
I am not trying to change your opinion, but I stick to mine. It was quite a telling thread.
by darylehret on 18 March 2012 - 00:03
Many women would readily admit to having a natural maternal instinct to nurture weakness, and not attach some sort of shame to it. Few species could survive without this particular gift from nature.
There are lots of exceptional women to that rule, but how would you suppose the majority might affect the overall breed picture? And, where most of us would probably concede that competition sports drive the direction of the breed, what do think it says, when women are ever increasing thier portion of participation in these venues?
I've got a new word for you, gender blindness; having some inexplicable need to take that which is most obviously different, and pretending it is in every way the same.
There are lots of exceptional women to that rule, but how would you suppose the majority might affect the overall breed picture? And, where most of us would probably concede that competition sports drive the direction of the breed, what do think it says, when women are ever increasing thier portion of participation in these venues?
I've got a new word for you, gender blindness; having some inexplicable need to take that which is most obviously different, and pretending it is in every way the same.
by VonIsengard on 18 March 2012 - 00:03
I'm coming into this one a bit late as I wanted to time to give a decent reply.
Before I do, I want to reiterate that sport is my hobby only at this time and my experience does not come from it. I have, however, in my career, gone toe to toe with dogs that wanted to seriously do harm to people, other dogs, their own handlers, and me. Dogs that, were in not for the amazing invention of the muzzle, would have put me in the hospital. I don't know is that's "hard" enough for you and in certainly has nothing to do with breeding (or I should hope not). I have suffered bites, pinched nerves, tendonitis, stress fractures, concussions and more. I know I have the mental capacity to handle these dogs and demand my "weaker" female body keep up. ;)
Strength will play a role in correction of a strong dog initially. With powerful dogs it's very important that a female handler be taught proper technique to issue a strong correction, from your grip on the lead, to the angle of your wrist, to the the bend of your elbow and position of your shoulder. This takes time and practice to learn and most male handlers will never need to even think about it. That said, I have seen some tiny females and even elderly women give one WALLOP of a correction that plenty of men lack the coordination or backbone to give, once they know how. I've lost track of how many incredulous grins or smirks I've seen disappear off mens' faces when I can make their dog behave better in 10 minutes than they've managed the dog's entire life. It's kind of cute.
Someone brought earlier that women are more patient. I find this to be true, and I also find women are much more liberal with their praise. A lot of guys have trouble loosening up enough to give their dog the level of reward it needs. Furthermore, when dealing with aggression, I find men are WAY more likely to lose their cool- raising their voice, reacitve movement, getting in the dogs' face, etc. Which, as we all know, hightens situations in which the dog is already contemplating aggression.
Again, these are only my observations of 12 years of working with handlers and dogs of all kinds. Nothing to do, really, with sport dogs, although a good many of them would bite someone in real life much more readily than the average sport dog.
Now, if we want to have a ridiculous discussion on how handlers' gender can ruin, through market influence, temperament- I could just as easily say macho male handlers who brag about how their own dog is so badass they need to work it while wearing a bite suit and place genetic value on handler aggression are just as easily "ruining" temperament. You'll never see a female handler with a "compensatory" dog. "Hardness" and "loose cannon" are not the same thing. If I want a dog that comes up the leash at me every time I sneeze, I'll myself a mal. (just kidding mal folks, only a joke!)
Before I do, I want to reiterate that sport is my hobby only at this time and my experience does not come from it. I have, however, in my career, gone toe to toe with dogs that wanted to seriously do harm to people, other dogs, their own handlers, and me. Dogs that, were in not for the amazing invention of the muzzle, would have put me in the hospital. I don't know is that's "hard" enough for you and in certainly has nothing to do with breeding (or I should hope not). I have suffered bites, pinched nerves, tendonitis, stress fractures, concussions and more. I know I have the mental capacity to handle these dogs and demand my "weaker" female body keep up. ;)
Strength will play a role in correction of a strong dog initially. With powerful dogs it's very important that a female handler be taught proper technique to issue a strong correction, from your grip on the lead, to the angle of your wrist, to the the bend of your elbow and position of your shoulder. This takes time and practice to learn and most male handlers will never need to even think about it. That said, I have seen some tiny females and even elderly women give one WALLOP of a correction that plenty of men lack the coordination or backbone to give, once they know how. I've lost track of how many incredulous grins or smirks I've seen disappear off mens' faces when I can make their dog behave better in 10 minutes than they've managed the dog's entire life. It's kind of cute.
Someone brought earlier that women are more patient. I find this to be true, and I also find women are much more liberal with their praise. A lot of guys have trouble loosening up enough to give their dog the level of reward it needs. Furthermore, when dealing with aggression, I find men are WAY more likely to lose their cool- raising their voice, reacitve movement, getting in the dogs' face, etc. Which, as we all know, hightens situations in which the dog is already contemplating aggression.
Again, these are only my observations of 12 years of working with handlers and dogs of all kinds. Nothing to do, really, with sport dogs, although a good many of them would bite someone in real life much more readily than the average sport dog.
Now, if we want to have a ridiculous discussion on how handlers' gender can ruin, through market influence, temperament- I could just as easily say macho male handlers who brag about how their own dog is so badass they need to work it while wearing a bite suit and place genetic value on handler aggression are just as easily "ruining" temperament. You'll never see a female handler with a "compensatory" dog. "Hardness" and "loose cannon" are not the same thing. If I want a dog that comes up the leash at me every time I sneeze, I'll myself a mal. (just kidding mal folks, only a joke!)
by mollyandjack on 18 March 2012 - 00:03
"Many women would readily admit to having a natural maternal instinct to nurture weakness, and not attach some sort of shame to it. Few species could survive without this particular gift from nature." -- Um, no. Very wrong thinking here. Few species would survive with half of it's members "nurturing weakness". Social animals like humans are a notable exception, and both human sexes ( you said gender, but you mean biological sex) have the drive to nurture young and care for the sick and elderly, unless they have a screw loose. Not sure what that has to do with handling a "strong" dog or breeding strong dogs. I've seen plenty of weak dogs bred by men, and dogs that men couldn't handle.
by 4pack on 18 March 2012 - 01:03
"Many women would readily admit to having a natural maternal instinct to nurture weakness, and not attach some sort of shame to it. "
I must be hanging with the wrong chicks because I'm seeing more men that fit this role than women these days. I myself have no tolerance for weak or weak nerved dogs or people. Dogs that don't learn fast and stupid people also fall in the same boat. Buckets for them all!
A maternal instinct to nurture is one thing, but to nurture weakness? A baby I have patience with, a dumb ass I do not. The baby will grow into something one day, the dumb ass will not. I nurture what I know not to be a waste of my time. I waste as little time as possible on worthless puppies and dogs as I do with worthless humans.
I must be hanging with the wrong chicks because I'm seeing more men that fit this role than women these days. I myself have no tolerance for weak or weak nerved dogs or people. Dogs that don't learn fast and stupid people also fall in the same boat. Buckets for them all!
A maternal instinct to nurture is one thing, but to nurture weakness? A baby I have patience with, a dumb ass I do not. The baby will grow into something one day, the dumb ass will not. I nurture what I know not to be a waste of my time. I waste as little time as possible on worthless puppies and dogs as I do with worthless humans.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 18 March 2012 - 01:03
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A complete and utter lie.
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Name them.
| You'll never see a female handler with a "compensatory" dog. |
A complete and utter lie.
Quote:
| I've seen plenty of weak dogs bred by men, and dogs that men couldn't handle. |
Name them.
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