Female handlers weakening the breed?!? - Page 2

HECKL NO! If we "girls" are going into a "MAN SPORT" PLEASE by all means, dont alter/weaken the breed for us! That just gives you guys a chance to shoot women down!

Same rules, same dogs for ALL

If a woman can't handle it then they dont belong!

Men and women compete on an equal footing in the Olympic equestrian sports. Even the strongest man can't control a horse just with brute strength, so I'm afraid Jeff's argument doesn't hold water AT ALL!


"One can never, through violence, cause the horse to perfect the manner in which it expresses its skill, but only by delicate alternation between coaxing and demanding, between much praise and little punishment."

Alois Podhajsky, director of the Spanish Riding School, 1939-1965

 

Yet in the Military, a man's PT test is not equal to a woman's PT test. I see no need to produce "softer" dogs unless those that produce these dogs are using it as an excuse maybe?

This is scarcely a new accusation. I think I've heard similar whining in other sports that are being rejuvenated or kept alive by the influx of women who like to train and compete with their dogs. My first response is, too bad, so sad, get over it. *ahem*

It doesn't take a "man's strength" to operate an ecollar, which is what many trainers/handlers turn to with a truly hard dog. So, this is more about people preferring a dog who is more flexible and easier to work with.... I'd have to say that that demand is scarcely female driven--I think it is points-driven--and there are as many or more point-seeking male trainers out there as female.

Additionally, a truly hard dog is not best managed by the brutal handler who uses all of his physical strength against a dog. If a dog is truly hard and dealing with a hard/harsh handler, then human and dog just end up in a constant conflict--a battle of wills and strength--and there will be more fighting than learning and seldom will any sort of true teamwork be achieved. Far better for any human--male or female--to use their brains and act with confidence rather than force.

There are a few dogs out there who refuse to respect a female handler--they absolutely won't work for them, no matter how motivational or no matter the force. One of these dogs I witnessed was Dak v Kirchweital -- and it had nothing to do with handler skill or handler strength. Interestingly, although this dog was plenty hard and strong, he wasn't one of the first dogs I think of when I think of the hard, strong dogs I have known.

As far as old-fashioned "harsh" training methods back in the days when dogs were "really hard" .... does anyone really think it's a good idea to return to the days of using a high-speed winch to teach the go out?

Christine

It is my opinion ( notice I said opinion not fact or actuality) that GSD are being weaked because we no longer have the need for a super strong working dog.  True working homes are few and far between, breeders are breeding for more of a pet/home guardian market or they bred for themselves.  Alot of these purchasers have little or no dog experience and are ill equiped to handle a strong working animal. No choice really as in this day of I sue you you sue me, strong dogs are a liability not an asset.   In other countries this may not be the case but in North America we have to be aware of this when producing litters. Has zippo to do with female handlers.  We all know how I feel about Handler aggressive animals.  They should not be bred period.  Handler aggression does not mean a hard dog, it means the dog is a dink. German shepherds were bred to work WITH a handler.  To me this is a huge temperment fault.  In other breeds it doesnt bother me as much as in the GSD.

How about I go dig up Frei v d Guggi and turn him loose in a ring of women...lol

We have some great women in dog handling who do know how to handle the HOT ones.,but I would not want to try   soft handling with any of Frei's progheny...

I know of a women handler in Germany who one of Frei's sons ate her face out and an American trainer, male, took him and 15 days later put a Schutz 1 on that male dog. in Germany, .while she lay in a hospital..
That dog came to America to live...and still had to learn ALPHA...took a heavy hand to teach him and to get him civil but oh what a powerhaus with nerves of steel and later ran together with 20 other gsd daily..  I had a grgr grand son of Frei and it never stopped showing in all the progheny .out of Dona sur Steinbeck Burg.

It can be done by women but sometimes the soft touch won't work. Sometimes you have to get that dogs attention...
YR

This has got to be without a doubt one of the most
ridiculous things anyone has posted here in ages:

"I do see it as a business practice, strong dogs are not going to sell, as there are so many more girls doing sport, and nothing, NOTHING, cracks me up more than hearing of some high scoring dog being handled by a girl described as POWERFUL ! STRONG ! INTENSE ! ! ! !  But that is just me, as I have seen these dogs and no. Not any of the things they said they were, just an average dog made stronger by a weak handler. Which takes us back to Kennel blindness. "


I don't even know where to begin to start, and quite frankly,
reading this kind of stupidity shows me there will be nothing
but wasted time answering a comment like that.

I can hardly wait to see the superior super-duper-way-better-than-
everyone-elses-dogs this one is producing.

@ brynjulf, I am going to have to agree with your statement.

I think as with anything; A lot has to do with the forum examined. I honestly think that the ASL dog has been negatively impacted in terms of "strong dog" in the past 40 years by the women who are dominate in handling, judging, and breeding. But that's just my honest opinion.

I agree with Workingdogz.

I know of several woman that work, breed, compete and train hard dogs and have accomplished things he never will.  World class female trainers that can actually breed, train and handle dogs at the highest level.