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by GSDguy08 on 27 August 2011 - 03:08
wlpool, the ad was there yesterday. I don't know if it is still up, but I assume it is. I already clicked out of the link though this morning.
by Brittany on 27 August 2011 - 03:08
You guys wanna see something truly disguesting take a look at this video. I'm sure most of you guys already seen this, but look at these poor SL dogs with these 'toxic gait" according to this top orthopedic veterinary surgeon. Their hocks are actually wobbling.
On 1:46 the woman starts mentioning about world famous dog... which dog is she mentioning? I remember a VA entering crufs, but I'm unable to produce a name.
Take a load of this judge,Terry Hannan, on 1:54.. Is it any wonder why the pure breeds are turning into shit these days? It's because guys like him are allowed to be judges. I would've liked to see him debating with the orthopedic vet that was voicing his professional opinion on the dogs that this judge was awarding ribbons to.
by Abby Normal on 27 August 2011 - 11:08
Don't start me on Terry Hannan - what a Dick. How can he stand in front of dogs that can even stand firm and not wobble and sway when they are standing still and say they are anatomically correct and to the breed standard. When I saw that the first time I found it truly unbelievable! That's the problem with shows and the direction of the breed - judges like this.
Notice how he dodged the question about them being the correct shape to do the job they were bred for? He sidestepped that, paused and said they are correct to the breed standard, like a frigging politician - don't answer the question. So we know that he KNOWS that these dogs could not do the job they were bred to do, yet he promotes them as correct - what a stupid, stupid man, and stupid, stupid people that buy into this myth. It makes me furious. I would say to any SL breeder that swears that their dogs are sound and move correctly, video your dog in slow motion, in a stand, a walk and a trot, from front, side and behind, and let's have a look. I will believe what I see in front of my own eyes. Maybe it would open their eyes to slo mo video their dogs and see the real movement, perhaps then the scales would fall from their eyes, but I doubt it.
Notice how he dodged the question about them being the correct shape to do the job they were bred for? He sidestepped that, paused and said they are correct to the breed standard, like a frigging politician - don't answer the question. So we know that he KNOWS that these dogs could not do the job they were bred to do, yet he promotes them as correct - what a stupid, stupid man, and stupid, stupid people that buy into this myth. It makes me furious. I would say to any SL breeder that swears that their dogs are sound and move correctly, video your dog in slow motion, in a stand, a walk and a trot, from front, side and behind, and let's have a look. I will believe what I see in front of my own eyes. Maybe it would open their eyes to slo mo video their dogs and see the real movement, perhaps then the scales would fall from their eyes, but I doubt it.
by Niesia on 27 August 2011 - 18:08
Vonissk,
Do you remember what month's Review? I could look it up.
Regarding shows - we all believe that OUR type is the correct one and nobody likes to lose in shows. Therefore most breeders breed what will give them wins... If you breed something less liked by judges it will take much more effort to finish your dogs - and probably much more travel & $$.
I believe that becoming a 'judge' gives you more credibility as the breeder. "I judge GSD's so I know how they supposed to look like..." kind of thing. Would you argue with the official judge that your dog is not up to standard?
Starrchar,
What I was commenting was your statement that the dog in that add was best of breed in '09 in Canada. It may have been awarded a best of breed in a particular show in'09 - but it was not a best of breed in 2009 (as I understand it). Trust me I saw many bad dogs in shows - I was even wondering if owners are blind... But I have to admit - recently there are more and more outstanding examples. They improve in overall look towards what I personally like.
Brittany,
I saw this video/program before. I kind of agree with it, especially when you see the dogs shown as an example – it’s pretty scary.
In my town I see all types of GSDs, usually they are line crossed. There is one BIG $$$$$$$$$ German showline import , VA, Sch3 titled, KKL1 for life - beautiful , impressive head, great coat and deep coloring. Stunning when posed. As soon as it moves you know something is horribly wrong with his structure. His body is making lots of effort to move, never mind run. Head down, banana back, front feet right next to each other, crossing over, cow hocked – it rather hopes like a bunny than walks like a dog. I don’t even mention his character.
Well – somebody gave him VA,Sch3, KKL1 for life titles and highly recommended him for breeding.... Somebody thinks he is a perfect improvement of the breed...
Do you remember what month's Review? I could look it up.
Regarding shows - we all believe that OUR type is the correct one and nobody likes to lose in shows. Therefore most breeders breed what will give them wins... If you breed something less liked by judges it will take much more effort to finish your dogs - and probably much more travel & $$.
I believe that becoming a 'judge' gives you more credibility as the breeder. "I judge GSD's so I know how they supposed to look like..." kind of thing. Would you argue with the official judge that your dog is not up to standard?
Starrchar,
What I was commenting was your statement that the dog in that add was best of breed in '09 in Canada. It may have been awarded a best of breed in a particular show in'09 - but it was not a best of breed in 2009 (as I understand it). Trust me I saw many bad dogs in shows - I was even wondering if owners are blind... But I have to admit - recently there are more and more outstanding examples. They improve in overall look towards what I personally like.
Brittany,
I saw this video/program before. I kind of agree with it, especially when you see the dogs shown as an example – it’s pretty scary.
In my town I see all types of GSDs, usually they are line crossed. There is one BIG $$$$$$$$$ German showline import , VA, Sch3 titled, KKL1 for life - beautiful , impressive head, great coat and deep coloring. Stunning when posed. As soon as it moves you know something is horribly wrong with his structure. His body is making lots of effort to move, never mind run. Head down, banana back, front feet right next to each other, crossing over, cow hocked – it rather hopes like a bunny than walks like a dog. I don’t even mention his character.
Well – somebody gave him VA,Sch3, KKL1 for life titles and highly recommended him for breeding.... Somebody thinks he is a perfect improvement of the breed...
by vonissk on 27 August 2011 - 20:08
I want to say it was between Jan. and May. I know it's not June and I know it's not August. It was at the b ottom of the page and in big letters. I am so disorganized--I read stuff and think oh I am going to scan this and send it to so and so and leave it laying there and when you are a slob-LOL-things tend to disappear.............
I have said this many times--I really don't mind losing so bad to a GOOD dog and I also know there are some color blind judges out there. When you have a judge that puts up a cow hocked, swaybacked dog that refuses to be examined--very fearful and nervous BUT it's blk/tan and it's the only blk/tan in the class then it makes you think that. Just like what you just said about the showline male you were just making reference too. It is sad. As I said before that automatically makes him breeding quality because of his titles.
I've seen that videro many times and yes it is sad. Thank goodness there are still people out there who care about the breed and it's future and not just pumping out puppies for the dollar bill. And Kudos to the judges who put up correct dogs regardless of who the handlers are or who the dog's breeder is.
I have said this many times--I really don't mind losing so bad to a GOOD dog and I also know there are some color blind judges out there. When you have a judge that puts up a cow hocked, swaybacked dog that refuses to be examined--very fearful and nervous BUT it's blk/tan and it's the only blk/tan in the class then it makes you think that. Just like what you just said about the showline male you were just making reference too. It is sad. As I said before that automatically makes him breeding quality because of his titles.
I've seen that videro many times and yes it is sad. Thank goodness there are still people out there who care about the breed and it's future and not just pumping out puppies for the dollar bill. And Kudos to the judges who put up correct dogs regardless of who the handlers are or who the dog's breeder is.
by Mindhunt on 27 August 2011 - 21:08
I remember a show that we were allowed to take our dogs to while we were working, the group had all working line GSDs and I must say, they were all nice looking dogs (ok, maybe a little biased but hey). More than one judge walked over to us and tell us what beautiful dogs they were and how sad that the show dog is no longer even close to how it is supposed to look. They asked us not to show our dogs because we would waste money and piss off the wealthy show breeders. We looked in surprise and said that we were there to work not show. Finally after the 6th or 7th judge walked by and commented on our dogs, I walked up to the group of judges and asked why they don't do something about it if they are so upset with were the breed has gone, and they said it is all about politics and money, they (the judges) would be black balled and never work again in a top show. They said that we as GSD breeders and handlers need to stop breeding the "show" standard and start trying to bring back the "normal working" standard. I said how about we all work together, and then one of them said, I need to wake up to the real world were money is the power behind any standards and breeders who are making money by turning the breed into a commodity and paying the right people are the ones running the AKC.
by Niesia on 28 August 2011 - 01:08
Midhunt,
Do you think that only AKC show ring has this issue? Just one questions - how many sables or close coat GSDs do you see in the SV ring nowadays? I saw a video from a recent SV show and those dogs looked like little clones... Germany and German breeders make much more money selling their 'superior dogs' all over the world...
The truth is that as soon as breeding and showing stops being a hobby - it's about money.
And YES – it’s up to us breeders to create good GSDs. If you want to make money in the dog business you need to breed and sell what has a potential to be titled. Titles supposed to give credibility to the breeding program of a given breeder.
If you are determined to better the breed – your road will be bumpy, and usually the only satisfaction you will have will the fact that YOU know that you are producing great dogs.
BUT there is a light in the tunnel. If you breed right, choose and combine carefully the breeding stock – even in this crazy dog world you can create stunning animals. If you breed two dogs just because they are ‘titled’ , well – you know what I mean...
Do you think that only AKC show ring has this issue? Just one questions - how many sables or close coat GSDs do you see in the SV ring nowadays? I saw a video from a recent SV show and those dogs looked like little clones... Germany and German breeders make much more money selling their 'superior dogs' all over the world...
The truth is that as soon as breeding and showing stops being a hobby - it's about money.
And YES – it’s up to us breeders to create good GSDs. If you want to make money in the dog business you need to breed and sell what has a potential to be titled. Titles supposed to give credibility to the breeding program of a given breeder.
If you are determined to better the breed – your road will be bumpy, and usually the only satisfaction you will have will the fact that YOU know that you are producing great dogs.
BUT there is a light in the tunnel. If you breed right, choose and combine carefully the breeding stock – even in this crazy dog world you can create stunning animals. If you breed two dogs just because they are ‘titled’ , well – you know what I mean...
by Niesia on 28 August 2011 - 01:08
Midhunt,
Last year I went to the regional AKC show and had two judges approach me to comment on my girl and ask if I am showing her. When I said NO they were surprised. They said that they haven't seen such a great dog in a while and they would love to have her in a ring. Well - five years ago, three judges and two handlers said that she will not stand a chance...
Again – you are either breeding what you like and think is right or what other people want you to breed...
Last year I went to the regional AKC show and had two judges approach me to comment on my girl and ask if I am showing her. When I said NO they were surprised. They said that they haven't seen such a great dog in a while and they would love to have her in a ring. Well - five years ago, three judges and two handlers said that she will not stand a chance...
Again – you are either breeding what you like and think is right or what other people want you to breed...
by vonissk on 28 August 2011 - 02:08
Good posts Niesia and I totally agree. Also just wanted to throw this in, I think there are some changes regarding better looking dogs and I, being the eternal optimist, believe there are more coming. I've seen better looking dogs. Also at the all breed show we went to in July, there was a young boy--about 10 or so--with a pretty little bitch. He was the only dog in his class and when he went up against the next class he won over name brand handlers and name brand dogs. I wanted to run out there and hug the judge for having what it took to put up the best bitch. And his dog was only from what I call a hobby kennel that had decent dogs. I've seen several of them and visited her webpage.
by starrchar on 28 August 2011 - 20:08
Niessa, I am sorry, but I didn't mean to imply he was best of breed inCanada. I just meant he got best in show somewhere and someone liked him! Who knows where it was, how big the show was or how many were in the class. I used to show horses so I am all too familiar with what goes on with showing animals :(
The best,
Char
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