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by Sunsilver on 24 January 2010 - 15:01
Sabrina, having taken diuretics (medications that make you pee out the fluid) in the past, I can tell you from experience that they work fairly quickly, so no, her not urinating is a bad sign.
Even if she's not drinking very much, the lasix still should be working to get rid of some of that fluid in her abdomen (and probably in her lungs as well).
I have no suggestions, other than to say tell the vet what is happening, and follow his advice. You should take her back in, and have him check her bladder to see if it is distended. If it is, and she can't urinate for some reason, he can drain it with a catheter.
If there's no or very little urine in the bladder, it means her kidneys are shutting down, and her condition is getting much, much worse.
When did she last have a bowel movement? Was it normal? Has she vomited at all?
by Robin on 24 January 2010 - 15:01
I also was taught that if you take to much fluid out that the abdomen that your pet could loose too much protein. I would take her back have them palpate the bladder and maybe tap it with a needle or use a catheter. and maybe even put her on a IV so you can flush the kidneys with the Catheter in her bladder. you need to get the kidneys working also with a good x-ray you can see if they are inlarged or not. just a thought.
We also use Baytril it is a very good antibiotic maybe you could get some of that.
by hodie on 24 January 2010 - 15:01
Enrofloxacin is a high powered antibiotic effective against a wide range of bacteria. Here is a link you can read that explains it simply. There are other documents on line as well, but this should be a good start. If she does not begin to respond to this antibiotic in a day or two, then that too should be discussed with the vet. It can make dogs nauseated, so I would not worry about her not wanting to eat, as much as the issue of drinking at least some small amount. You do not want to overload her system anymore with fluids however, so you have to be careful about the liquids you give.
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_enrofloxacin.html
As Sunsilver says, lasix normally produces pretty rapid peeing, but if she is dehydrated except for the fluid being where it should not be, it could take some time, or she may be having kidney problems now as well. Does her breath smell bad or abnormal? I would not worry so much about her not eating. And it might be time to consider draining fluid with a needle if there is a competent vet involved. It is difficult to say because we really don't know what is going on.
She might benefit from some cardiac drugs, but there are a wide variety of them and it is not something one can simply guess at. You need a good vet for this.
The Hepavite is a vitamin B complex so that is useful just in general, but you won't see any rapid improvements because of this medication. What are her stools like? Vomiting? What do the conjunctiva of her eyes look like? Her gums? Her tongue? Is her belly still distended? Did you know she had a congenital heart problem or could it be that there is a heart problem now associated with something else going on?
The one thing I worry about is the possibility that she might have a partial obstruction or bowel perforation. So that too should be ruled out. It is possible she has more than one thing going on and now it is tough to see what is causing what.
I do hope you can get her to KL soon for some additional help. There is not much more any of us can suggest. Is her fever down a bit? Remember 100.5 to 102.5 or so is normal in a canine. See this link for some parameters of what are normal vital signs in a canine. How regular is her heartbeat according to the vet?
http://www.vetinfo.com/dognorm.html
Keep us posted. We all wish you the best with her.
by SabrinaT on 24 January 2010 - 15:01
Yes, that's what I thought and I have been in contact with the vet throughout today and told him she is not losing any fluids despite giving Lasix; he said this is not abnormal and to just try to give her as much water as possible.
I will take her in again first thing tomorrow morning and ask him to check her bladder and see if it is distended, and if it is to drain with a catheter.
But, if there is no fluid present in the bladder and as you say this indicates kidney failure, what would you suggest then? Is there anything we can do, or should we give a medecine for the kidney?
And should we also ask for a Paracentesis? (as suggested by Louise)
Thank you again for the help, you're helping to give Sam the best shot she has and I cannot thank you enough for this.
by hodie on 24 January 2010 - 15:01
Here is a link on canine paracentesis:
Google this: Veterinary emergency medicine secrets By Wayne E. Wingfield
In that book, on page 457 is some information about paracentesis.
by Sunsilver on 24 January 2010 - 16:01
I'm still bothered about the lasix. Let me say that I have NEVER known lasix to work that slowly, but then I've never given lasix to a patient that might be already dehydrated. (That would make NO sense whatsoever.) If she's that dehydrated, the vet should have put her on IV fluids!
Try this test: pinch a piece of loose skin between your fingers, pull it out as far as it will go, then let it fall back. It should go back into place within a second. If it stays pinched for longer than that, your dog is dehydrated.
by SabrinaT on 24 January 2010 - 16:01
Hodie,
Yes sorry, that post was in reply to Sunsilver before you had posted.
I am reading over your post now and will try to answer your questions as best as I can.
And I know you cannot advise exactly what to do as you haven't even seen the dog, but all the information and advice you have given is helping us and Sam tremendously. We would be completely stuck if not for you and some others on this forum and I am immensely grateful.
So, I will try to answer your questions now.
Thanks again.
by Piper on 24 January 2010 - 16:01
by SabrinaT on 24 January 2010 - 17:01
Ok, I have tried to answer your questions as best as possible by comparing Sam to my other dogs.
Bad / abnormal smelling breath? Yes, her breath definitely seems to smell worse / slightly abnormal.
Any vomiting? She hasn't vomited at all since becoming sick.
What are her stools like? She hasn't passed motion for two days (Sunday / Saturday).
What does her conjunctiva look like? Can't really notice any difference compared to others.
Gums / Tongue? Again, I can't see any abnormalities.
Belly distended? Yes, appears to be.
Is her fever down? Her fever was last taken at 10:00am local time (15 hours ago) and was 104.
What is her heartbeat like? According to the vet, the x-ray (done on Friday) showed her heatbeat was slightly faster on the right side, and I noticed yesterday that you can feel her hearbeat very strong on the right side but not on the left said.
When I asked the vet about this he said it is due to the fluid in her chest.
Dehydrated? I did the test with her skin and she seems to be dehydrated as her skin stayed 'pinched' for a little longer than a second.
Active? Of course, not anywhere near as active as normal but today she has been much better compared to yesterday (she didn't move much at all), today she is walking around a litte and moving more.
Jaundiced? I can't really tell myself but the vet mentioned when we did the blood test (Monday) that she had a slight yellowish tint.
So, I will take Sam to the vet again tomorrow morning but considering she seems to be dehydrated, do you recommend we do / don't do a Paracentesis?
And what about her bladder, should that be drained with a catheter if she still hasn't lost any fluids by tomorrow?
Or should we give the Lasix more time?
And lastly, if there is no fluid in the bladder, should we get something for her kidney?
Well, I am going to bed now (as it's past 1am my time) but will check your replies first thing tomorrow before going to the vet so we have an idea of what to ask for / suggest.
Thanks again so much Sunsilver and Hodie, you can't imagine how helpful you've been.
by hodie on 24 January 2010 - 17:01
Keep giving her the antibiotics and the other medication your vet prescribed already. Don't worry about her eating. She does not feel like eating. I would give the lasix more time to work, but if she has fluid in body compartments, that fluid all has to start shifting so it can be eliminated and you have to make sure, in the meantime, that she stays hydrated otherwise.
I don't know whether a paracentesis is indicated or not. You will have to depend on your vet there. Based on what you are saying, I am not sure it is required at this point. The jaundice can be difficult to see in a dog, but blood work should be clear as to whether there is normal kidney and liver function. So you might wish to re-do that bloodwork if you believe the vet has the equipment to do it. If her kidney function is abnormal, then there may be things you will want to do or change, but your vet should be able to suggest those things after seeing what the bloodwork is like.
The good news is that you say she seems a bit better today. I would stay the course then, and if possible, continue to work closely with either your local vet or take her to the city to see someone else.
Sleep well and keep us posted.
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