ethical breeding - Page 2

 Quote: I'd prefer an obedient dog over one that will track or hit a sleeve any day.

That is a silly statement. Suddenly there is no ob in Sch ???

Jeff maybe another way to look at that is to ask why schutzhund has such a bad public image?  I train schutzhund and I think its great for the dogs but a lot of people who are new to dog sports would rather do agility or something else because they have this negative that schutzhund is full of mean people and there attack dogs.   I disagree but thats what a lot of the public thinks. 

We all need to work to change this bad view of schutzhund.  Schutzhund isn't for everybody but we don't need to chase new people away if they don't have the best dog to start with and they are taking time to train.

Terri

But I have been educated to the fact that schutzhund is one of the tests of the qualities that are desirable for the CONTINUED BREEDING OF THE GSD. Were these not parameters established in the beginning to perserve the qualities of the gsd?

Yes ramond, at the start of the breed it was "the"  test. However that was about 100 yrs ago, portions of that test have been changed (made easier) so many do not believe it is a worthy test for the breed anymore.

Well, to put into my perspective :

Schutzhund is part of the requirement by the SV for a breeding animal. So from that point of view, why argue about it, it's in the book, so do it. Now one can say it's not worth nothing, but you could also turn it around : In a breeding with titelt parents, you can follow the ancesters of that breeding...... the parents of your dog past the test, the grandparents passed the test, the great grand parents passed the test. Dont you think that, this fact makes it more feasible that your dog may also be able to pass ?? Look at it, before a dog is used for breeding....... BH at 15 month, show between 12 -18 month, AD at 18 month, SchH 1 at 24 month, Körung and show at 26 month, and they are all manipulated ! So to say "midnight trials" ? Give me a break, it is a long way to have & raise a breeding animal, and most do it the way it is supposed to be done.

Would I breed to an untitelt animal, nope, the question is not there for me because I stick to SV rules. The question if it would be ethical, thats silly. It has nothing to do with Ethics, it is more about to have the Moral to follow rules.Way too many think, these rules are set out to bug them, when they are not, their intention is to mantain our breed and to keep a standart.

Best Regards Ulli

Sure sure, but I'd be even happier if they were titled in PSA, KNPV, FR, Mondio or any of the other sports as well.

4pack,

I can agree with you on that, but then the rules have to be changed. Change them, I will happily go with it. But as long, as we have this set of rules, that is what I depend on. And this is not because I am a sheep following the herd, but because its the best we have at this time. There is no verfiable proof that the parents, grandparents, greatgrandparents were titelt in PSA, KNPV, FR.........

Like I said, if that would be a better aproach, lets talk about it & maybe start to change the rules we have right now. But till then, I will stick to what we got. Ulli

Ulli's post is my opinion as well.

molly

 Quote: Jeff maybe another way to look at that is to ask why schutzhund has such a bad public image?  I train schutzhund and I think its great for the dogs but a lot of people who are new to dog sports would rather do agility or something else because they have this negative that schutzhund is full of mean people and there attack dogs.   I disagree but thats what a lot of the public thinks. 

We all need to work to change this bad view of schutzhund.  Schutzhund isn't for everybody but we don't need to chase new people away if they don't have the best dog to start with and they are taking time to train.

I am curious as to where people are getting this idea that a working dog sport (any) has a bad image ? 

Is it because the dog they have is not capable ?? I often wonder, as too many dogs are being bred that cannot do something as basic as Sch. 

When I was a kid, people didn't seem to be so sensitive as they are now. They have an idea in their mind of what the dog can and cannot do, and shop for opinions until they find someone to agree, as opposed to what reality is.

So back to what I want to be my main point, where did this bad image come from ??? I know that when I got my AKC paperwork for my GSD that has since passed, they have the propaganda right there telling me that my dog is a natural protector bla bla bla, and needs no training.

So what else makes it have a negative image ???

Ulli, You are correct but in Germany Sch is PART of the rules in order to breed a dog....in America this is not the case...now does that mean that Sch is either bad or should not be done ....Heaven forbid.....All it means is that some chose to follow SV standards in this country and some have their standards, and some have no standards. Unfortunately AKC does not necssitate the oversight that(in setting up arrangement with a parent German Shepherd club that a dog can't be registered to breed without titles)makes people get these titles to get their dog registered. If I was in Germany I would follow the rules just like you do. And you find when those kind of rules are in place, then the means to reach these rules(trials and training places) become available enough to meet the need. But...this is not the case over here, so if a person goes that extra step to title their dogs, Kudos to them ad I am sincere in that regard. But in this country, you really have to rely on the integrity of the breeder for acquiring a good dog. And in that regard I know breeders of titled dogs I would purchase and I know breeders of titled dogs I wouldn't touch, likewise I know breeders who breed untitled dogs I would take in a minute and I know breeders of untitled dogs I wouldn't touch. Bottomline is since this country has different requirement for breeding a dog, it skews other aspects of the equation in terms of breeding and finding a good dog.