Showline sires who produce dogs who can work? - Page 7

Check out Olesko vom Sandstein!

Not only has he got his SchH3  but he was on the World Team for French Ring last year.   

French Ring and Schutzhund....apples and oranges.  The grip requirements/expectations are so different that many in this area refer people whose dogs have weak, or shallow grips to ring where the full, hard grip is not  such a"  big deal."   Ditto for dogs with weaker nerves.  Ironically, the Ring folks refer their  nerve-issue washouts to schutzhund clubs!!

 Interesting topic, but the majority of comments on this thread relate to bitework. What about tracking? There is no need for a dog to bite if it cannot find the bad guy. Tracking (and I do not mean Sch. tracking) requires a great deal of stamina and dedication not to mention an internal motivation on the part of the dog. This is the work part. The bite...well that is only the reinforcement for tracking, LOL, the icing on the cake for the handler and the fuel that feeds the existing internal motivation to track. Detection is hard work and dogs that excel in this area are internally motivated to do so and the behavior is reinforced with....tug work (more biting).

Let's not dwell on bitework as the end-all, be-all of work. It is a component, but not a very good evaluation for work ethic. 

Sorry to get off topic, and no, I don't know of any showline dogs that I can recommend.

I have enjoyed this thread and thank you Mclay for the last comment.

vERONICA:  There is a  VJimmy v Arminius pup advertised on the database right now..he is the pick pup out of the litter..

Take a look   ....in no time he would be ready for your 12 year old..., if you cant find an older one...

If you really want to get down to the grassroots of this breed, their original job was tending sheep 24/7 which requires  yet another set of instincts and conformation traits.  For sure  correct size, endurance and agility would be essential.

Why would size matter if everything else was there?I've seen 17 hand horses turn on a dime.From what I have learned from an elder friend of mine in ref to herding.She see's so many that are just into a deep bite with no release.Many attain titles but could not tend a herd if they had to.It is probably that way for the majority of german shepherds that hit the ground today.Far too much emphasis has placed on the bite of a dog.Most sport dogs can't actually work.So many protection dogs are lacking quite a few marbles.One thing you failed to mention in ref to a herding dog.If the master went down in the field the dog would instinctively know how to aid.

Amigo v Belgier is one that comes to mind. If a dog does not do well in SCH,  it is not the dog,  but how, and who the dog was trained by, and what methods were used.

JMO.

Quote:

A bad trainer/handler can ruin a good dog.... but a good trainer/handler can never make a bad dog look good...

Just my opinion here,

I have watched from first hand experience, excellent trainers take a very poor dog and make it look good. AND very poor trainers can make a good dog look very bad.

This is why you really have to research and find out what each dog is producing and NOT just go by what the sire is like. If the trainer made the dog look good with excellent training, then the dog is NOT going to produce good work. The opposite can be true also. ie: a good dog that got poor training ( making it look bad ) CAN produce good working progeny. It's all in the research.

Slightly off subject... IMO this is what makes the difference between a good trainer and superior trainer ie... the ability to take very poor dogs and make them look good. Most any trainer can take a "push button" working line and make him lookg good.  It's those that have the talent, abilities, know-how and patience to solve problems and bring a poor dog up to a very good working level, that are the absolute best trainers.

Some of the dogs today(or very recent years) that are producing well:

Karat's Ulk + Ulko

Hill Farbenspiel

Ando Altenberger Land

Vando Moorbeck

Amigo Belgier

There are others that aren't fying up into my mind at the moment that I'm sure I left out. But at least it gives you a general idea.  By looking into the above dog's pedigrees you will see some common ancestry, as the working ability is handed down.  Look for these in a show pedigree, when wanting some solid nerves and strong drives.

Hope that helps some, Veronica!

Debby

http://castlebrookshepherds.net

ebinezer052899@yahoo.com