Herding Instinct Test - Page 2

Sunny, you just missed Kintzel's HGH trial last month. I think he teaches a somewhat different style of herding, calls it tending. DKiah, congratulations on a terrific accomplishment. I'd be bragging too!!

I do mainly sheep herding with my gsd's and have my own flock of sheep. I have worked gsd's from ALL lines, some SchH titled others not. In my experience most gsd's have herding instinct, however, what and how they use the instinct can be quite different. I am presently working my dogs in border/tending (what the gsd was originally bred for) but I have also worked them in other avenues. You will find that some trainers are 'afraid' of the gsd and thier drives and thus often 'feel' or 'think' the best dogs are those that do not display a lot drive/intensity. This can especially be true of some border collie trainers. Having said that I have also worked with some border collie people who truely appreciate a 'good working dog' no matter what the breed. It is quite amazing watching the gsd do what it was bred to do! Besides instinct however are many other qualities that are needed for the gsd to do the work correctly. Bite/Grip is a HUGE issue. There is a reason the gsd is suppose to take a full calm grip. Placement of the grip is also VERY important. I have worked gsd's that are capable of doing it 'all' however, thier grip is totally incorrect and because of this every time they take a grip they do damage to the sheep. Grip is genetic and thus it is important to breed correctly. One might be able to 'train' a gsd to grip correctly or to not grip incorrectly but you will never be able to fully trust your dog. If you are using your dog for real work, you must be able to trust them.

Sierra, am unclear about the grip. Assume you mean the dog should have a full calm grip on the sleeve which then transfers to the livestock? Where would you suggest to go for good reading/video material especially with focus on the GSD? Seems to me to be such nice work for dog and handler. It certainly is beautiful to watch. Sunny

Yes, a full calm grip on a sleeve is likley to transfer over to a grip on sheep, however, it won't show you 'where' the dog is genetically prone to grip on sheep. THe acceptable areas are on the neck, side, rump of sheep. This is where there is the most muscle and wool. A correct grip in these areas is not likley to do any damage to the sheep. If, however the dog is prone to grip on the face or hock of the sheep it is incorrect. This WILL do damage. I have had to stich/glue sheep togther more than once with this kind of grip. A dog that does not use a full mouth grip will often just use thier front teeth and this results in 'tearing' the sheep or pulling the wool off the sheep which can result in absesses growing. The opposite is likley also true. A dog that takes a nice full calm grip on sheep is also likley to do so on the sleeve. Are you wanting reading material on sheep herding with german shepherds?

Thanks so much for responding Sierra! I would love to know more and yes about herding with GSDs. On the grip, I have the following question: If you have a dog, that is extremely careful with his mouth on humans but tends to be (now don't laugh) a butt and arm nibber (gives hickies), does this say anything about his "grip". In protection a courageous fighter no matter who the helper or where the place. Hard strong grips. Will this dog be OK in herding. He tended to go for the rear flank. Just put mouth on but did not grip. The female did not even try to bite but rushed and was capable of moving the stock. But, she is much older and once was kicked by a horse. Age and experience makes one alittle wiser, right? Really look forward to hearing from you. Have to also say the sheep awed me too. They were so experienced and well trained. Sunny

Hi Sunny, If you would email I have an entire list of links for Herding ect. Jerry

ZVZW, you must be a very special person in our breed. I saw your website already because of your post to Fida. I will write you shortly but thanks for being such a provider of knowledge. Sunny

Jerry, I didn't know you did herding?? Heather

Hi Heather, I was raised on an 850 acre Dairy farm and we has Great Pyrenees we herding with. This was one of the first forms of training I did besides Bird dogs. As well those are my plans for Zinah too. Jerry

Urgh we had Great Pyrenees we did herding with! IM so tired! :-)~